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1.) luv2bowhunt - 12/05/2014
This season I thought I’d do a little private study on mock scrapes. I’ve read about them, thought about them, even played around with them a time or two but never took them seriously. With deer scents in general, I’ve always been a sceptic. Probably because here in PA, I’ve had a lot more negative results with scents than positive.
Occasionally I’d see a buck follow a scent trail, but more often than not a group of does would come in and spook when they hit the same scent trail. So I’ve decided over the last several years to forego scents and focus on being scent free instead.

After more reading this year and since I have several trail cameras available to use at each stand, I thought I’d play around with a mock scrape at 3 stand locations. Normally I retrieve all my cameras once the season begins since they are all out on public land but this year I took a chance and left them out. I keep them elevated on a tree, normally hidden fairly well, so I felt it wasn’t too risky.

I created a mock scrape at 3 different stands, each one in a location that did not have previous scraping activity. One location received no visits after 3 weeks, so I removed the stand and the camera. This was the stand easiest to get to and the closest to a State Forest road. I believe the deer were avoiding this area in general due to hunting pressure.

The other 2 locations were hit several times both day and night. I did not have a mature buck visit either of the scrapes and I had no pictures at all this year of a 3 yr old or older buck after the first week of Oct. But that is not abnormal here in the PA State Forest. Those deer are quite adept at disappearing when the pressure is on.
At each scrape I placed pre-orbital gland scent on a licking branch and a deer ‘curiosity’ scent on the ground. I did not put doe-in-heat scent on the scrape until later in Nov. Before the rut the licking branch seemed to be just as interesting to the deer as the scent on the scrape was.

[URL=http://s103.photobucket.com/user/gerryg64/media/EK000074_zpsa165d1ec.jpg.html][/URL]
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Once the doe-in-heat was applied to the scrape the deer seemed much more interested in the ground than the licking branch, but still some deer used the licking branch.
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I was surprised how well deer responded to the scrapes, one buck visited the scrape the same day I created it. The scrape in the video took a lot of effort to create. This is an area filled with wild blueberries and getting all the plants and roots out took quite an effort. Deer could never have created a scrape in this location on their own, but instantly this buck was attracted to the sight of it. Click on the picture for a video.
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My findings lead me to believe that a mock scrape should be placed at each of your stand locations. Possibly having multiple scrapes would be even better. Next year I will expand the project and see if stands with multiple scrapes increase activity over a site with only one scrape.
I don’t think I made deer make a dramatic shift in patterns but encouraging any deer in the area to walk around and drop scent near my stand is a welcome visit. From now on I will be creating mock scrapes at stand locations, even starting them in the Summer this year.

And you know your scrapes look realistic when you see this.

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This friendly helper refreshed my scrape 3 times and I don’t believe he ever saw my camera or treestand. He setup a stand 40 yds in front of mine in the middle of the dense clearcut. He must have thought my access trail to my stand was a deer trail, he setup his stand with one shooting lane to my trail. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know my stand was there, it was tough to see tucked in the branches the way I set it up.
2.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
LOL...


So obviously you didn't use a dripper. How often did you refresh your scents? What curiosity scent did you use?
3.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Thanks for the info Luv2. I might give that a try next year. How much of the product do you need when creating or refreshing a scrape?
4.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27554]This friendly helper refreshed my scrape 3 times and I don’t believe he ever saw my camera or treestand. He setup a stand 40 yds in front of mine in the middle of the dense clearcut. He must have thought my access trail to my stand was a deer trail, he setup his stand with one shooting lane to my trail. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know my stand was there, it was tough to see tucked in the branches the way I set it up.[/QUOTE]

Pro Tip:

I set up a stand early at great effort way up a tree on public land one year, and climbed in it for the first time during prime time only to spy another stand newly erected in another tree about sixty yards away.This was back when I was still chewing tobacco.

When I got down later that morning, I moseyed over to the other stand and dropped my pouch of Levi Garrett on the ground at the base of the tree and walked away. Problem solved. That guy pulled his stand almost immediately. I doubt he ever knew my stand was there, as high as it was. I'm sure he thought someone was sitting in his stand while he was elsewhere.

:wave:
5.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27564]Pro Tip:

I set up a stand early at great effort way up a tree on public land one year, and climbed in it for the first time during prime time only to spy another stand newly erected in another tree about sixty yards away.This was back when I was still chewing tobacco.

When I got down later that morning, I moseyed over to the other stand and dropped my pouch of Levi Garrett on the ground at the base of the tree and walked away. Problem solved. That guy pulled his stand almost immediately. I doubt he ever knew my stand was there, as high as it was. I'm sure he thought someone was sitting in his stand while he was elsewhere.

:wave:[/QUOTE]

Thanks Mr. SwampFox. First time caller, longtime listener. Could you tell me if you were using rough cut chewing tobacco or the little pouches. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.
6.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
Levi Garrett is rough cut. I want to point out that for deer hunting, rough cut or loose snuff (I was a Skoal man) are much better than pouches, which are okay for the office, chatting up secretaries and snipe hunting, but probably shouldn't be discussed on this thread.

When it comes to hunting, we don't need no steenkin' pouches, see. Although if you were actually to climb up in someone else's stand, the little pouches stick to everything pretty well after you've used them up, so I suppose you might get your message across almost as well as with a big pouch of leaf.

(See, not a hijack....:wink)
7.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27558]LOL...


So obviously you didn't use a dripper. How often did you refresh your scents? What curiosity scent did you use?[/QUOTE]


Okay, you don't have to tell us if it's a secret...
8.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
It is a secret family recipe made with a big black cauldron in the back yard. "Eye of newt..."
9.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
He was just here and blew it off. Possibly a pavement emergency somewhere, or he got PO'd at us for chit-chatting while waiting for him to get back to us...LOL
10.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Lol! So much gravel, so little time.
11.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
If we want him to come back and post, we should use the terms "cement" and "concrete" incorrectly...


But let's don't tell him we're doing it on purpose...:wink
12.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Too bad. It's kinda like when a celebrity only has a few moments for autographs and a photo-op before they are whisked away by their handlers. When Luv2 comes in, you must be ready with bow in hand cause you only have maybe one or seconds before he vanishes.
13.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
If I don't make the scrape correctly it will be his asphalt...:cool:
14.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
15.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
One time I was setting some posts and I poured some quikcrete in there and I was too lazy to drag the hose out to it. So I took a long leak on it. Set up great. Making concrete is easier than you think.
16.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;27575]If I don't make the scrape correctly it will be his asphalt...:cool:[/QUOTE]


17.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
...the Russion judge gave me a 4. :-)
18.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
While Luv2 is deciding whether he hates us all, I'll pass along this: The best thing I've seen to start a "scrape" with is Power Scrape from Tink's. Who knows what's in it, and it is a synthetic. I can't even swear it's a synthetic scrape scent vs. "just" a curiosity lure. But I do know that deer will paw it when they find it.

I haven't used a forehead scent in a while and don't remember ever trying a pre-orbital, so I can't compare.

This is where Luv2's input would be helpful....:wink
19.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
So are we emptying the bottle on the scrape or we just putting a little dab behind the ear?
20.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Luv2's work whistle probably blew. When that happens, hundreds of orange jumpsuits are awakened from their naps and a mass exodus ensues. It's a mad dash to the local pub for some Iron City beer.
21.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
Just a little dab. Power Scrape is a spray, so you give it a few squirts.

You know the trick where you bury a perforated film or pill canister in a scrape to "slow-release" scent? The other thing I used to do was the "magic dirt" or whatever they called it that HS used to sell. I believe Luv2 got me believing it was some type of pelletized (dried?) clay used for pond/tank/pool linings. Anybody remember it or know of a reasonable substitute? I loved that stuff.

In your mock scrape, you'd build a little mound with a depression in the middle---like a mashed potatoes and gravy volcano-----mmmm, mashed potatoes and gravy :) ---and pour about 1/4 oz of sex scent in..The "magic dirt" was non-absorbent, so the scent would just sit there until a deer came by and worked it into the scrape itself.
22.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Ah, maybe bentonite?



I think Luv2 started something he couldn't finish. At least that's what she said...
23.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
I'd have to search. I think it's on this version of HC. Whether I can find it is a different story.

I'd buy a bag if I could find a dealer.





(Dave's not here, man.)
24.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
[url]http://www.understanding-cement.com/glossary.html[/url]
25.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
LOL...


I think it's a lost cause...He's at the Early Bird Special at General Pickett's Buffet by now...

Try the meatloaf.
26.) bluecat - 12/05/2014
Do you think he wears his hardhat while he's eating the popcorn shrimp?
27.) Swamp Fox - 12/05/2014
Wears it? He wouldn't go there without it. It's how he sneaks an extra plate out to the car without paying.
28.) Swamp Fox - 12/06/2014
I want to know what the trail cam pics showed after Luv2's Little Helper delivered his presents. Also, what level and proximity of natural deer movement Luv2 feels is good for locating a stand at a scrape site.

For instance, I could have a mock scrape in a medium-high traffic area and still have no daytime activity at it, quite frequently. It sounds like Luv2 has improved on that performance.

I have mostly not hunted right over the scrapes I've made. At least not for bowhunting. I don't know why that is exactly, but Luv2's success has me reevaluating what I used to do. I think I will definitely start them differently and now the question is will I add my usual dripper and what will I put in it.
29.) Swamp Fox - 12/06/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27585]... The other thing I used to do was the "magic dirt" or whatever they called it that HS used to sell. I believe Luv2 got me believing it was some type of pelletized (dried?) clay used for pond/tank/pool linings. Anybody remember it or know of a reasonable substitute? I loved that stuff.

In your mock scrape, you'd build a little mound with a depression in the middle---like a mashed potatoes and gravy volcano-----mmmm, mashed potatoes and gravy :) ---and pour about 1/4 oz of sex scent in..The "magic dirt" was non-absorbent, so the scent would just sit there until a deer came by and worked it into the scrape itself.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=bluecat;27586]Ah, maybe bentonite? ...



[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27588]I'd have to search. I think it's on this version of HC. Whether I can find it is a different story.

I'd buy a bag if I could find a dealer.





(Dave's not here, man.)[/QUOTE]


Not bentonite. Bentonite is absorbent and binding. I had the same objection to whatever suggestions were made last time I asked about this.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite[/url]


I'm looking for something that holds liquid in a pool, rather than something that thickens or congeals. Some forms of bentonite are used as water barriers, so I can see where the idea comes from, but we're talking liquid barrier as in cat litter vs. what I'm looking for is the way water is held in a cup.

You know how ash will hold a little water before it soaks in? Multiply that to the nth power.

In fact, I wonder if the magic dirt was volcanic ash, ground fine.
30.) bluecat - 12/06/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27594]Wears it? He wouldn't go there without it. It's how he sneaks an extra plate out to the car without paying.[/QUOTE]

Lol!
31.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
the drurys brothers wouldn't even waste there time on the 2 years old you seen working them scrapes....the drury brothers are far more advanced in the art of deer hunting..
32.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
my best scent ever used was the interdigidal gland scent..
33.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
I always liked the drippers..every time I would set one out, there would be footprints in the mock scrape..not deer prints... but bigfoot prints! maniac 150 I think its called ..roger raglan good stuff..

one thing I noticed about scents is they do work..
34.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27569]Okay, you don't have to tell us if it's a secret...[/QUOTE]

you no better than that to ask a hunter from pennslavania where there secret spot is or secret scent....theres been like a 150 deaths there over the years..i'm surprised the guy freshing up luv 2's mock scrape isn't buried close by luv 2's stand..never to be heard from again..
35.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
luv 2 would always fire off a couple of gun shots in his area before season just to ward off hunters on his public land spot..
36.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
there were known fistfights over mockscrapes in luv2's area..
37.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
you cross over a mans hunting spot in Pennsylvania..there will be a fistfight or gun shots...and you what to ask luv2's secret mock scrape remedy??thats an insult to all pennsylavaian hunters...
38.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
what is there like 7 million hunters in Pennsylvania?? isn't that the place where they shut down the schools and beer is half priced??
39.) Swamp Fox - 12/07/2014
LOL...I didn't think about any of that...:-)
40.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
they take there deer hunting seriously over there..there's no such thing as "deer camp"..it each man for himself.. why do you think luv 2 hunts by himself??
41.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
there were like 150 hunting deaths there..they were all shot in the back...
42.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
I thought he was a deer...
43.) crookedeye - 12/07/2014
wasn't it that one story a few years back in PA. when the guy shot the other guy in back of the head with a arrow??he thought it was a deer..
44.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27558]LOL...


So obviously you didn't use a dripper. How often did you refresh your scents? What curiosity scent did you use?[/QUOTE]

I freshened them up every time I hunted the stands, maybe once a week on average. I used Paul Pollicks Mystique Intrigue. A good mix of several gland scents.
45.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;27561]Thanks for the info Luv2. I might give that a try next year. How much of the product do you need when creating or refreshing a scrape?[/QUOTE]

I only had a 2 oz. spray bottle of 4 different scents. Mystique Intrigue, Pre-orbital gland, buck tarsal, and Flaming Doe. Didn't use any of them completely. I would just apply a good spray of each when I used them. Probably used more of the curiosity scent on the ground than anything else.
46.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27598]I want to know what the trail cam pics showed after Luv2's Little Helper delivered his presents. Also, what level and proximity of natural deer movement Luv2 feels is good for locating a stand at a scrape site.

For instance, I could have a mock scrape in a medium-high traffic area and still have no daytime activity at it, quite frequently. It sounds like Luv2 has improved on that performance.

I have mostly not hunted right over the scrapes I've made. At least not for bowhunting. I don't know why that is exactly, but Luv2's success has me reevaluating what I used to do. I think I will definitely start them differently and now the question is will I add my usual dripper and what will I put in it.[/QUOTE]

I selected the stand site first. These stands are in the thick cover, near or right on the edge of bedding areas. Once I set the stands, then I found a tree that offered a licking branch. There were places that made more sense for a scrape, but I wanted to have that licking branch for the pre-orbital scent. I wasn't worried about what kind of place to put the scrape, just put them where I planned on hunting anyway.
47.) Deerminator - 12/08/2014
Good Stuff. :tu:
48.) bluecat - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27641]I only had a 2 oz. spray bottle of 4 different scents. Mystique Intrigue, Pre-orbital gland, buck tarsal, and Flaming Doe. Didn't use any of them completely. I would just apply a good spray of each when I used them. Probably used more of the curiosity scent on the ground than anything else.[/QUOTE]

Are you peeing on the scrape or is that not even necessary? Amazingly that was a serious question.
49.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
No, did not urinate in the scrapes, but wouldn't be afraid of doing it. I will try to remember that for next year and see what picks I get afterward. I will try and face away from the camera for that.:tu:
50.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27642]... There were places that made more sense for a scrape, but I wanted to have that licking branch for the pre-orbital scent...[/QUOTE]


They say that the licking branch is really the key to a scrape, real or mock. I know the scrapes I've started that didn't have good licking branches didn't go anywhere. And I haven't nailed down what makes a really good licking branch yet, but some overhanging branches are better than others, for sure. I think the better ones have to have a little bit of mass and resistance to them. I know the fact that they are merely "overhanging" doesn't make them prime.
51.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27646]No, did not urinate in the scrapes, but wouldn't be afraid of doing it. I will try to remember that for next year and see what picks I get afterward. I will try and face away from the camera for that.:tu:[/QUOTE]

You know how I knew that wasn't you in that pic? The guy wasn't wearing skinny jeans....:p
52.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
OK, I get why you're asking that. No one peed in the scrapes. The other hunter is trimming the licking branch in the photo you see. He also sprayed something on the ground, I'm guessing a doe-in-heat spray.

I did get a pic of a buck at night that came to the scrape after he sprayed it.[/URL]">

I'm thinking the licking branch is a must have, and with the pre-orbital spray on it, it didn't seem to matter how thick the branch was.

These were just your average thin branches on a young maple tree.
53.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
Did any particular book or article that you read prove particularly helpful to you on this? You mentioned you'd been doing some reading...
54.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27649]

I'm thinking the licking branch is a must have, and with the pre-orbital spray on it, it didn't seem to matter how thick the branch was.

These were just your average thin branches on a young maple tree.[/QUOTE]


But thicker than a toothpick, say, or not?
55.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27648]You know how I knew that wasn't you in that pic? The guy wasn't wearing skinny jeans....:p[/QUOTE]

Hardy, har har.:td:
56.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27651]But thicker than a toothpick, say, or not?[/QUOTE]

Details, details. I'd say the main part of the branch was 1/4" ish, feathering out into the real thin stuff. If you want I'll go back with a camera and calipers and get all the info.:wink
57.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27650]Did any particular book or article that you read prove particularly helpful to you on this? You mentioned you'd been doing some reading...[/QUOTE]

I was reading D&DH and the article was about calling cards. You should leave as many as possible at your location. I thought I had nothing to lose and with the cameras it would be a bit of research, which I am into anyway.
58.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27652]Hardy, har har.:td:[/QUOTE]


Just trolling for members who are missing in action...LOL...You're merely an innocent bystander, but it was kinda served right over the middle of the plate...:wink
59.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27653]Details, details. I'd say the main part of the branch was 1/4" ish, feathering out into the real thin stuff. If you want I'll go back with a camera and calipers and get all the info.:wink[/QUOTE]


If you don't mind...:wink


Around here, deer like to lick on and rub certain kinds of wood. For the scrapes, it's fibrous, springy stuff a lot (which I suppose all young branches are to a certain extent) but it seems like once the branch gets to a certain size (or maybe it's stiffness) it loses its appeal, whereas a similar-sized branch of some other plant that might remain springier/more fibrous (holly branches come to mind) will still be attractive for wrasslin' with.
60.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
I did notice something by accident with one buck. You know often times at a deer scrape they end up breaking one of the over hanging branches. There was a branch that I had accidentally broke off when I was doing some tree trimming, and the one buck went right to it to mark it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to always break one of the branches to add a certain appeal for certain deer.
[/URL]">
61.) bluecat - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27646]No, did not urinate in the scrapes, but wouldn't be afraid of doing it. I will try to remember that for next year and see what picks I get afterward. I will try and face away from the camera for that.:tu:[/QUOTE]

Most cameras don't have that type of resolution and magnification so no worries. :wink
62.) bluecat - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27648]You know how I knew that wasn't you in that pic? The guy wasn't wearing skinny jeans....:p[/QUOTE]

That and the mismatched camo. Luv2's rules of engagement forbid that.
63.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
Re. Intentionally breaking a branch:

Hmmm....Maybe it would show a certain level of interest/energy put into a scrape that would pique "another" buck's attention....

Do you see many scrapes where straight lines have been etched into the ground, I assume by a buck's antlers?

That and a broken/twisted licking branch always gets my blood up.
64.) bluecat - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27662]Hmmm....Maybe it would show a certain level of interest/energy put into a scrape that would pique "another" buck's attention....

Do you see many scrapes where straight lines have been etched into the ground, I assume by a buck's antlers?

That and a broken/twisted licking branch always gets my blood up.[/QUOTE]

What about putting a rub there too. I noticed some of the neighboring trees were kinda nicked up. Was that you Luv2?
65.) Swamp Fox - 12/08/2014
I bet a broken branch holds scent better until it dries out, too.

A long time ago, you used to hear about people doing mock rubs to create a visual cue for deer, and then the idea kinda went away as far as I can tell and now I think it's making a bit of a comeback.

I can neither confirm nor deny reports that anyone would create mock rubs to fool other hunters and lead them down the primrose path....:wink
66.) Wild Bob - 12/08/2014
Thanks for sharing your study with us Luv2! :tu:
67.) luv2bowhunt - 12/08/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;27663]What about putting a rub there too. I noticed some of the neighboring trees were kinda nicked up. Was that you Luv2?[/QUOTE]

There are no buck rubs in the pictures that you can see. The only thing on the trees is the early sunrise starting to shine through the trees. I think adding a mock rub couldn't hurt at all, especially if you add some scent to it.

Notice in this picture that the doe that is coming to the scrape has brought a buck in that was obviously following/harassing her. You can see him in the background.
[/URL]">

You can get an idea how thick these areas are if you look in the background behind the buck. Trust me, the only open areas are the ones I have created.
68.) Deerminator - 12/09/2014
YUMMY.
Nuthin wrong with that fat 7 prt. look'd wide.
69.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
We should do a Mock Scrape Challenge next year. Maybe we can even get someone to organize it. :wink

Each guy starts 1-3 scrapes, say, and puts cameras on them. I'm a believer in starting scrapes well before hunting season to get deer in the habit of coming to them, but maybe we'll let people set them up as late as Sept. 15 or Oct. 1. The idea is to have everyone's scrapes as equal as possible, though, except for location and ingredients. So it would be nice if few or none of the scrapes could be discounted for lack of activity because they "went out too late."

As real scrapes are opened, participants can set up cameras on at least one, preferably two. One scrape is left alone, the second is "messed with" by adding scents, mock rubs, peeing in them, or whatever you want to do. (Crookedeye could get in his doe suit and stand around looking pretty, or Bluecat could set up his scrub buck decoy, or Deerminator could borrow a cow from one of his neighbors and tie it to a nearby tree to see what happens. ---I'm just spitballin' here.)

The point of the contest would be to get the best pictures/video and learn something about mock scrape set-up. If we coordinated how we each did our scrapes and kept decent notes, I'll bet it's possible something worthwhile could come out of this. :wink Maybe an independent judge or panel could pick the best scrape picture or the best "study" of scrape activity and add 10 or 20 points to that man's score if he is participating in the deer contest. Maybe 10 points for best pic or study and 20 points for best buck pic (not necessarily biggest buck, just an interesting or high-quality pic).

It could be some fun. :grin:

You can get some cameras pretty cheap this time of year. Just sayin'. :wink
70.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
If we only had a group of hunters, that might work.:wink

I'm already in, cause I'm already going to be doing it. That leaves 2 by my count to be in. You and bluecat.

Deerminator - not into cameras
Alex - not a hunter, only pics of farm life/scenic views/semi-nude models
Hunter - camera on feeders only
WildBob - also not into cameras
Bob Peck - too busy for such foolishness
crookedeye - has no idea what you're even talking about


That's about it, who am I missing?
71.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;27685]YUMMY.
Nuthin wrong with that fat 7 prt. look'd wide.[/QUOTE]

I was hunting a different stand that day. Glad I wasn't at this tree because I would have been tempted, especially with him offering that shot at 12 yds.
72.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
LMAO!

:ach:
73.) billy b - 12/09/2014
Gerry are you lurking on the job, you can't get by me.
74.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
Maybe if people knew this was brewing, they could ask Santa for a camera or two that they wouldn't ordinarily buy for themselves. :wink
75.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
billy b can be on my team. We'll kick your arses so hard, by the time you quit rollin' it will be next week.
76.) bluecat - 12/09/2014
Between you guys you have like maybe one good knee?
77.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
I'm skeered of what Hunter might get on a scrape cam! :jd:
78.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;27698]Between you guys you have like maybe one good knee?[/QUOTE]

:laugh:

:nk:
79.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27696]Maybe if people knew this was brewing, they could ask Santa for a camera or two that they wouldn't ordinarily buy for themselves. :wink[/QUOTE]



Let's take this out the realm of speculation. I'll coordinate this Challenge with y'all, integrate it into the Deer Contest (for those who want to participate in that) and we'll do it.

Now that it's official, people can revise their lists for Santa and send notes to the Easter Bunny and the Birthday Fairy...Get your cameras lined up over the coming months so we can do this next fall.


:tu:
80.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
Prepare yourself for immediate disintegration. billy and I will dominate the entire world.
81.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
LOL...

If a few people don't want to mess with mock scrapes for whatever reason, they can participate by setting up cams on real scrapes. I'd like to get a mix of mock scrapes and real scrapes that are either A) left alone and B) messed with.

I think we should leave it up to each hunter how they want to mix up what kind of scrapes they put their cameras on, but I'd like to know we have a good mix going into the Challenge. So maybe some loose guidelines if we don't have a big mob of people participating, LOL.

People don't have to participate in the Deer Contest to be in the Mock Scrape Challenge and they don't have to be in the Challenge to be in the Contest. However, if they are in both, points they win in the Mock Scrape Challenge will help them in the Deer Contest.



I'm just thinking out loud at this point, so rein me in if you don't like something I throw out there.
82.) Deerminator - 12/09/2014
What's this mock scrape challenge you speek of?
83.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
On a serious note, why does it have to be a contest? Why not just do a controlled study and compare notes?

You can make guidelines but I'm going to do what I do. This is all about me. That's how I roll. :wave:
84.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
LOL...Not a contest, necessarily, just a way to earn some points and bragging rights especially if one participates in the Deer Contest. An incentive to participate in both, and spice them up. Make it fun.

I agree that people should be free to do what they want with their scrapes and that the study should be somewhat controlled. LOL

I'm just trying to find a way to walk that fine line.

I think we should all put our heads together and come up with a set of scrape types and conditions we'd like to study, and then line up the hunters who can take some or all of those under their care.

For instance, Joe says he doesn't want to chance messing up any of his real scapes, so we find someone else to take care of the "Real Scrapes --Messed With" category. Not too many guys on mock scrapes they manipulate regularly vs. the number of guys who open scrapes and then leave them alone for the rest of the season.


Etc.
85.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;27704]What's this mock scrape challenge you speek of?[/QUOTE]

I'll start a separate thread when I get some more time and a chance to cogitate a bit. In the meantime, all the ideas so far are on this thread.

:grin:
86.) Deerminator - 12/09/2014
Ideas??;
--aaaa-- free Rumpus juice
87.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27706]...

I think we should all put our heads together and come up with a set of scrape types and conditions we'd like to study, and then line up the hunters who can take some or all of those under their care.

For instance, Joe says he doesn't want to chance messing up any of his real scapes, so we find someone else to take care of the "Real Scrapes --Messed With" category. Not too many guys on mock scrapes they manipulate regularly vs. the number of guys who open scrapes and then leave them alone for the rest of the season.


Etc.[/QUOTE]


Mock Scrape --Manipulated

Mock Scrape --Unattended

Real Scrape --Manipulated

Real Scrape ---Unattended



Let each hunter manipulate his scrapes however he likes. I'd like to see a variety of scents, including human pee; a mix of locations, some with mock rubs; licking branches of various types including species, broken/unbroken condition, some that are imported to the sites that might have lacked a good branch, etc.

With enough participation, we could line all this up ahead of time so it's not a complete free-for-all, but where each hunter has the freedom to experiment as he wants.
88.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
Anyway, no matter what I decide to do with a mock scrape, my anonymous hunting friend may come along and do something different.

He is so lucky I have mellowed out in my old age. My first thought was to take my steps over to his tree, remove his ladder sections, and stack them neatly up on his stand. Then remove steps, arrive early the next Sat. morning and watch for the incoming flashlight.

OK, I'll take the scrape that is doctored up, you take the one where you defecate in it to see what happens.:re:
89.) Deerminator - 12/09/2014
We do know that 90% of scrape activity happens at night. And if there is no licking branch then it's probably a sign post type not the HAY BABY! over here, type of scrape.
What I'd like to know, is it is a communal scrape or just one big scrape.
Can something be added to the scrape or area of the scrape that will pull in a buck? In day light?
90.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
LOL...

Maybe we need a special category for you, Luv2: Mock Scrape---Manipulated Anonymously And Who Knows In What Way Without A Better Camera Angle
91.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;27711]We do know that 90% of scrape activity happens at night. And if there is no licking branch then it's probably a sign post type not the HAY BABY! over here, type of scrape.
What I'd like to know, is it is a communal scrape or just one big scrape.
Can something be added to the scrape or area of the scrape that will pull in a buck? In day light?[/QUOTE]


Some of the most "communal" scrapes I've seen were small and rinky dink. One of the most active was between the size of a dinner plate and a serving platter. I have a couple of huge scrapes on my lease this year but never managed to put a camera on them. I suspect they were used by many deer.

I'd call all real "breeding" scrapes communal. Boundary scrapes and markers and nervous energy scrapes might not get enough subsequent visits to qualify.
92.) luv2bowhunt - 12/09/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;27711]We do know that 90% of scrape activity happens at night.[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought would happen, but was surprised. My results were about 50/50 daytime vs. night time.
93.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
I think the best thing you can do for daytime buck activity at a scrape is locate it (or find it) in very thick cover that deer are using for bedding. I'm not sure bucks will scrape much in cover they run to for escape, unless they wind up camping out in it for some fair duration.
94.) Pa bowhunter - 12/09/2014
I would bite on something like that, I just started really playing with scrapes over the last two years but have not put any of my cameras over them, but I am going to buy two plot watchers this year and that should help to free up a camera or two that I could commit to a study like this, plus it would be interesting to start them around july and see how they progress into hunting season..
95.) Swamp Fox - 12/09/2014
96.) Deerminator - 12/10/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;27714]That's what I thought would happen, but was surprised. My results were about 50/50 daytime vs. night time.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=7]Interesting[/SIZE] [/FONT]:tu:

Any data like,young bucks at a certain time or 3 1/2 year old bucks at a certai time. If a buck passes by, saaaay. 200yds down wind
will he come to the circle of death?.
97.) bluecat - 12/10/2014
I think it would be neat if a lot of people (and by a lot I'm thinking > 3) participate. I'm looking forward to building a mock scrape next year.


If not for the deer for the chick admiration.

"Yeah honey, I built that."
98.) Swamp Fox - 12/10/2014
I used to have a little bit of luck (not 200 yards) with mock scrapes pulling deer out of thick and unshootable stuff they'd walk through in the middle of an otherwise open oak bottom. I always wanted to put the mock scrape out in front of me, though, and the travel was normally beyond that, and so a wind in my face wasn't the best and I was leery of crosswinds blowing in the direction deer were coming (even though my "scent cone" did not project into their USUAL travel area --as far as I could tell, but you never know about the deer you spook that you never see or hear).


When a deer did appear at one of those scrapes while I was watching it, I have a feeling it was because they knew the scrape was there because it had been out for a while, rather than because they got a whiff of it and decided on the spur of the moment to investigate.

This was all or mostly rifle hunting, where you could set up some distance away and had a greater variety of ambush trees available to you. If I set up a mock scrape for bowhunting, it's to stop the deer within shooting range or to get a picture. I haven't tried to "pull" a deer with a scrape while bowhunting that I can think of. I don't see why you couldn't put it on the very edge of some thick stuff and set up right over it, but I guess that's not what I've been doing lately.
99.) Swamp Fox - 12/10/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;27733]I think it would be neat if a lot of people (and by a lot I'm thinking > 3) participate. I'm looking forward to building a mock scrape next year.


If not for the deer for the chick admiration.

"Yeah honey, I built that."[/QUOTE]


Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.
100.) bluecat - 12/10/2014
and big brains...:wink
101.) Swamp Fox - 12/10/2014
I heard a female commentator ask this about Mr. Gruber, Ph.D. yesterday: " Do think he's getting a lot of dates lately?"


:nk:


OUCH!


I always enjoy when people put Ph.D. after their names, or have it done for them. :re:



"Well, how'd you get to be king, then? I didn't vote for you..." :wink
102.) bluecat - 12/10/2014
He's not really a doctor...

103.) Swamp Fox - 12/10/2014
LOL...That exact thought is what runs through my mind...:-)
104.) Deerminator - 12/10/2014
They like bad boys
:hb:
105.) Swamp Fox - 07/21/2015
It's time to start fixin to begin putting the mock scrape project together...Some guys start them early. Anybody want to weigh in on the different type of scrapes we'd like to watch this year? We'll organize on a separate thread once we get rolling...We're just here temporarily for the chuckles, LOL...
106.) bluecat - 07/21/2015
[QUOTE=bluecat;27733]I think it would be neat if a lot of people (and by a lot I'm thinking > 3) participate. I'm looking forward to building a mock scrape next year.


If not for the deer for the chick admiration.

"Yeah honey, I built that."[/QUOTE]

However, if you're successful you [B]didn't[/B] build that. Someone else made that happen...
107.) luv2bowhunt - 07/21/2015
It takes an entire village to make a scrape.


Let me know what you want to know Chris, I'll fill you in on the details. Make them early, make them often, make them on the ground.
108.) Swamp Fox - 07/21/2015
I'll have to back and re-read this thread. I think this is where I outlined several types of scrapes we should document. Throw some ideas/your plans at me in the meantime. I'll get to this as soon as I can. Might be a day or so.
109.) luv2bowhunt - 07/21/2015
Ha, and you expect me to hang around here by myself until you get back. Not likely chief.
110.) Swamp Fox - 07/21/2015
:tap:

:-)
111.) Swamp Fox - 07/21/2015
Post something productive, or at least fun, in my absence...

Don't just stand there gawking...


:wave:
112.) Swamp Fox - 07/21/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27689]We should do a Mock Scrape Challenge next year. Maybe we can even get someone to organize it. :wink

Each guy starts 1-3 scrapes, say, and puts cameras on them. I'm a believer in starting scrapes well before hunting season to get deer in the habit of coming to them, but maybe we'll let people set them up as late as Sept. 15 or Oct. 1. The idea is to have everyone's scrapes as equal as possible, though, except for location and ingredients. So it would be nice if few or none of the scrapes could be discounted for lack of activity because they "went out too late."

As real scrapes are opened, participants can set up cameras on at least one, preferably two. One scrape is left alone, the second is "messed with" by adding scents, mock rubs, peeing in them, or whatever you want to do. (Crookedeye could get in his doe suit and stand around looking pretty, or Bluecat could set up his scrub buck decoy, or Deerminator could borrow a cow from one of his neighbors and tie it to a nearby tree to see what happens. ---I'm just spitballin' here.)

The point of the contest would be to get the best pictures/video and learn something about mock scrape set-up. If we coordinated how we each did our scrapes and kept decent notes, I'll bet it's possible something worthwhile could come out of this. :wink Maybe an independent judge or panel could pick the best scrape picture or the best "study" of scrape activity and add 10 or 20 points to that man's score if he is participating in the deer contest. Maybe 10 points for best pic or study and 20 points for best buck pic (not necessarily biggest buck, just an interesting or high-quality pic).

It could be some fun. :grin:

You can get some cameras pretty cheap this time of year. Just sayin'. :wink[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27703]LOL...

If a few people don't want to mess with mock scrapes for whatever reason, they can participate by setting up cams on real scrapes. I'd like to get a mix of mock scrapes and real scrapes that are either A) left alone and B) messed with.

I think we should leave it up to each hunter how they want to mix up what kind of scrapes they put their cameras on, but I'd like to know we have a good mix going into the Challenge. So maybe some loose guidelines if we don't have a big mob of people participating, LOL.

People don't have to participate in the Deer Contest to be in the Mock Scrape Challenge and they don't have to be in the Challenge to be in the Contest. However, if they are in both, points they win in the Mock Scrape Challenge will help them in the Deer Contest.



I'm just thinking out loud at this point, so rein me in if you don't like something I throw out there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;27709]Mock Scrape --Manipulated

Mock Scrape --Unattended

Real Scrape --Manipulated

Real Scrape ---Unattended



Let each hunter manipulate his scrapes however he likes. I'd like to see a variety of scents, including human pee; a mix of locations, some with mock rubs; licking branches of various types including species, broken/unbroken condition, some that are imported to the sites that might have lacked a good branch, etc.

With enough participation, we could line all this up ahead of time so it's not a complete free-for-all, but where each hunter has the freedom to experiment as he wants.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33283]It's time to start fixin to begin putting the mock scrape project together...Some guys start them early. Anybody want to weigh in on the different type of scrapes we'd like to watch this year? We'll organize on a separate thread once we get rolling...We're just here temporarily for the chuckles, LOL...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33307]I'll have to back and re-read this thread. I think this is where I outlined several types of scrapes we should document. Throw some/your plans at me in the meantime. I'll get to this as soon as I can. Might be a day or so.[/QUOTE]


Ha! Got to it faster than I thought so we didn't lose Luv2 to re-runs of The Golden Girls...


Above is a summary of my (the?) main ideas so far. The big thing is to let people do the scrapes they want to make and to coordinate that with what everyone else wants to do. And to start early...


If you already know what you want to do with mock scrapes, let's roll that into this thing, as Luv2 encouraged early on.
113.) Swamp Fox - 07/22/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33312]Post something productive, or at least fun, in my absence...

Don't just stand there gawking...


:wave:[/QUOTE]




Aaaaand.....


We lost him...


:re: :bang:


:tap:


:wink
114.) Deerminator - 07/22/2015
Pot holes= job security:tu:
115.) Deerminator - 07/22/2015
AWESOME THREAD . gOOD STUFF.
116.) Wild Bob - 07/29/2015
I tried a 'Mock Scrape' in the womens bathroom at work...I was trying to see if I could pick something up.

The only thing that came my way was the smelly old blind guy with his seeing eye dog leading the way. :shocked:

Dam dog kept whining and scratching at my office door...
117.) Swamp Fox - 07/29/2015
Reminds me of the story of the woman who goes to the bait shop run by a blind guy...LOL
118.) Wild Bob - 07/30/2015
Never heard that one...how does it go?
119.) Swamp Fox - 07/31/2015
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;33454]Never heard that one...[/QUOTE]


Funny you say that...


:pop:
120.) Swamp Fox - 08/31/2015
Let's give this thread a little goose...:-)
121.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
Can I have a show of hands from any or all of those who are interested in doing something like this this year?

Maybe get the cameras out by the end of the weekend after this coming one on mock scrapes, and have cams go up on "real" scrapes as you come across them. Leave the structure of the project fairly loose just to get things rolling, and then become more deliberate about what we're doing as we get more time to discuss it.

See my summary of ideas thus far in Post 112.
122.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
Since we know that at least Luv2 will put a camera on at least one mock scrape, I need a volunteer to put one on a real scrape that he will leave alone and a volunteer to put one on a real scape that he will manipulate in a disciplined manner and take notes on. It would be ideal if the same guy did both scrapes in the same general area, but we could live with two different guys.

Luv2, can you tell me if you plan to open a mock scrape and then leave it completely alone, so we know if we do or don't need someone to take that assignment?

If we can at least cover this ground, we'd have four different kinds of scrapes to look at: mock manipulated, mock unattended, real manipulated and real unattended. Then let's build up this thing from there.
123.) Jon - 09/03/2015
The first one I see on my property when it's near the rut will get a camera and will be urinated in every day (by me) to prove that deer get VERY interested when foreign urine is in "their" scrape.
124.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
:tu:

Excellent.


Now can I get someone to volunteer a real scrape that they will add one deer lure to on a regular basis, say no less frequently than once every two weeks (ideally much more frequently than that, but we have to start somewhere)?

If we have more than one volunteer or more than one real scrape to watch we can add more lures or experiment with different lures. But the first volunteer should commit to using only one lure of his choosing throughout the season. Then we'll build on from there.
125.) luv2bowhunt - 09/03/2015
I plan on putting a mock scrape at each of my stand sites with a camera on it, unless a natural one shows up there first. I will put some curiosity deer scent on the ground to start out and some pre-orbital gland scent on a branch.

Once we get to Nov. I'll put doe-in-heat on them. If I have an extra camera not being used I'll experiment with something. Probably not using pre-orbital on a licking branch to see how much difference it makes.

Like Trump, I can't commit to NOT running as an Independent.
126.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
LOL...I'm a natural-born cat herder....

Okay, so we've got that covered....

I'll commit to opening at least one mock scrape and leaving it alone, and placing a camera on at least one real scrape and leaving it alone.

So, so far what we have here--besides a failure to communicate--is this:


1)One real scrape manipulated--Human pee (Jon)

2)At least one real scrape unattended (Swampy)

3)At least one mock scrape unattended (Swampy)

4)At least one mock scrape manipulated, full bore: curiosity lure to open, licking branch with pre-orbital, and doe-in-heat during the rut. (Gerry "The Rebel" Luv2)


I'd also be willing to do at least one mock scrape manipulated in some way suggested by the audience, so keep the cards and letters coming....



Anyone else who wants to jump in with an idea/type of scrape they'll take care of?


:pop:


Also, I'd be happy to put someone else in charge of this if that will make everyone feel better :tap::wink, LOL...
127.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;34380]


Now can I get someone to volunteer a real scrape that they will add one deer lure to on a regular basis, say no less frequently than once every two weeks (ideally much more frequently than that, but we have to start somewhere)?

[/QUOTE]


This category is still open to some variables. Maybe a competing scent to what Luv2 uses or a different way of handling the licking branch or ?...----See his post above.
128.) luv2bowhunt - 09/03/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;34383]This category is still open to some variables. Maybe a competing scent to what Luv2 uses or a different way of handling the licking branch or ?...----See his post above.[/QUOTE]

I'd take this, but then I'd be competing with myself........I think...........wait.........what? Something that should be so simple is now..............well.........
129.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
:dig:


Maybe someone else could vary the type of location. Assuming you will be in thicker cover/near bedding areas? Someone could take your ingredients and process and try the same thing on a field edge or a feeding area.
130.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
One category I'd like to see covered by someone would be a buck scent at the scrape (besides pre-orbital). I'd like to see what happens when a rutting buck or dominant buck pee (or whatever) is added to a scrape that 1) is and 2) isn't getting dosed with doe pee of some type.
131.) Deerminator - 09/03/2015
Toxo should get in on this . I'll give him a poke see if he moves:-)

I think Jon should drink as many different beers as he can to see which pee works the best.
132.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
:tu:
133.) Swamp Fox - 09/03/2015
If anyone has some scents/lures/potions they would like to see tested in this project, please let me know. I'd be willing to do a little field test. At the moment I'm open to anything, especially if it's not something everyone and his brother is using.
134.) Swamp Fox - 09/22/2015
Bumping this up for more categories/participants/excitement and because Wild Bob and Jon shouldn't have to do all the work around here...:wave:
135.) Triton Rich - 09/23/2015
[B]I didn't get my mock scrape started yet this year. I have a camera up at an apple tree and naturally it seems every deer in the area is visiting. I'm going to put a mock scrape there this weekend hoping that I can keep the bucks visiting after the apples dry up and, you know, maybe slay one of them some day! :tu:[/B]
136.) luv2bowhunt - 09/23/2015
I didn't start one yet either. I still have another stand or 2 to hang somewhere, then I will know where I want the scrapes to be. Looks like I will miss the opener on Oct. 3 anyway. I'll be helping my boss put up a grain bin apparently. :td:
137.) Bob Peck - 09/23/2015
Virginians are screwed this year when it comes to mock scrapes, drag lines or any other manner of using or attracting deer with natural deer urine:

[I]"Effective July 1, 2015, it will be illegal to possess or use deer scents/lures that contain natural deer urine or other bodily fluids while taking, attempting to take, attracting, or scouting wildlife in Virginia."[/I]

Synthetics, yes. Natural urine, no. Can't even use tarsal glands off a fresh kill.

In case you're interested the whole PDF is here: [url]http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/diseases/cwd/natural-deer-urine-attractants-illegal-in-virginia.pdf[/url]
138.) Jon - 09/23/2015
It will still be legal for products that contain natural deer urine or other bodily fluids to be purchased and sold in Virginia. However, it will not be legal for individuals to have these products in their possession or
Effective July 1, 2015, it will be illegal to possess or use deer scents/lures that contain natural deer urine or other bodily fluids while taking, attempting to take, attracting, or scouting wildlife in Virginia.
on their person while afield for the purposes of taking or attempting to take, attracting, or scouting any wild animal in Virginia.


So, in Virginia you can go out on a Sunday when hunting is not taking place and put up a scent dripper with real urine and then hunt over it as long as you don't possess it while you are doing it. It could have been written better I think.
139.) Bob Peck - 09/23/2015
There is Sunday hunting in VA as of July 1, 2014.

However, as you might imagine with all bureaucracies there are restrictions namely there still is no hunting on public land *only* private.

[url]http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/hunting-on-sundays/faq/[/url]

So I've decided to strip the labels off of former natural deer urine bottles and affix duct tape labels. Using a black marker I'll label them Brand X and Brand Y. One will have my urine in it which I'll present to the conservation officer for testing and evaluation. The other will be single use and empty as soon as I'm settled into the stand.

As Charlton Heston once said: [I]"I'll give you my natural deer urine when you pry (or take) it from my cold, dead hands"[/I]
140.) Jon - 09/24/2015
Clever.....
141.) Swamp Fox - 09/24/2015
You'd have to switch to a vegan diet to have a shot at making it past the lab in Richmond, possibly the next step in this regulation's silliness... I also recommend no morning pee, and avoid asparagus...
142.) Deerminator - 09/25/2015
:groan:what next?
143.) Wild Bob - 09/25/2015
:tc:

Sorry guys, this topic just has too much potential for debate, and quite frankly...I don't like some of the undertones flying back and forth here.
144.) Swamp Fox - 09/25/2015
What? Mock scrapes, or vats of illegal deer pee being hidden in the deep swamps and hollers of Virginia?

Besides,, I thought you were up for a good debate. :tap:


:wink
145.) Deerminator - 09/25/2015
:-):pop::fire:
146.) billy b - 09/25/2015
I kinda like it:wink
147.) luv2bowhunt - 09/25/2015
You like the deer pee or the undertones?:cf:
148.) billy b - 09/25/2015
The thread smart azz:p
149.) Wild Bob - 09/26/2015
This whole thread is nothing but a mock...