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1.) Swamp Fox - 01/06/2015
Comments, questions, observations, opinions and general merriment here:

2.) BULLZ-i - 01/06/2015

3.) bluecat - 01/06/2015
I think it depends. I personally would want something a little bigger but if concealment is paramount then they do conceal pretty well. There are some single-stack models that are pretty light. It's better than a sharp stick. :wink
4.) Swamp Fox - 01/06/2015


LOL...How'd I know that was what you were going to say? :wink

But then again, I thought you might own or at least that you kinda liked the Sig P238...Or maybe I dreamed that up.
5.) bluecat - 01/06/2015
Is this a conceal carry weapon Swampy? If you are going to conceal something in the Bronco, you could hide a Howitzer in there.
6.) Swamp Fox - 01/06/2015
Not much extra room in the Bronco most of the year, LOL.

I did see a kinda neat holster that rides at the front of your seat a little while back. But I already have something there, LOL, plus it looked like you'd be sitting on the buckle. Maybe not. Maybe you pull the buckle back into the rear. I just saw a picture so maybe it was displayed differently from how you'd actually set it up.

Of course, I don't own any firearms, but if I did, I could see how someone would choose a .380 over a 9mm for pocket carry in the summertime (shorts, no belt, swim trunks, no shirt/just a t-shirt, etc.).
7.) bluecat - 01/06/2015
There are some pretty slim 9's out too. My neighbor doesn't own any firearms either, but if he were to own one and it was an M&P Shield and I happened to notice how concealable it was then I would say that is an option too. :wink

Is that a .380 in your Speedo or are you just glad to see me?
8.) Swamp Fox - 01/06/2015
In Italy, they call Speedos "Beretta Hammocks."
9.) Bob Peck - 01/06/2015
.380 as a primary personal defense weapon? Hell no.
As a secondary conceal carry weapon or for a small framed female who want to carry but isn't comfortable with 9mm? Yes.
10.) bluecat - 01/06/2015
A gun range instructor once said that if you ever shot someone with a .380 and they were to find out about it, they would be pissed.
11.) Swamp Fox - 01/06/2015
12.) BULLZ-i - 01/06/2015

13.) Deerminator - 01/06/2015
sig 938 9mm

The question is... 38spl or 9mm??
14.) Deerminator - 01/06/2015
I should make that it's own thread
15.) BULLZ-i - 01/06/2015
16.) BULLZ-i - 01/07/2015
17.) Deerminator - 01/07/2015
18.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015


Then I'll bet it's the 938 that I think I remember you commenting on...Way back...
19.) Bob Peck - 01/07/2015
I wrestled for several months (maybe longer) on caliber which included lots of back-n-forth between 9mm and .380
It was such a monumental back-n-forth I wrote a published article on the process. My dang head was spinning.

IMHO, there is literally too much information out there interwoven with personal preference and some anecdotal (yep, there's that word again) evidence one caliber being better than the other. I've concluded, like an archery rig, everything about firearms is somewhat subjective.

While researching I reached out to an FBI agent and friend of my Dad's who posted this in another forum:

[I][COLOR="#0000FF"]"An FBI report described the average gunfight at 21 feet, under low light, with 3-5 rounds expended on both sides...and was concluded within 5 seconds from OMG! to man down. That included law enforcement involved shootings. I'd tend to believe that if LEO statistics had been excluded, the maximum distance would have been about half that or even less."

"Many...if not most defensive shootings involving private citizens aren't gunfights at all, but rather hand-to-hand confrontations that escalate into knife or bludgeon attacks, or even classic 2 or 3-on-1 beatdowns with the defender fighting off the edged or blunt weapon with one hand while reaching for his gun with the other...and hoping that he can get to it in time."

"Of course, there's no guarantee that it will happen that way, but it's far more likely than a pistol duel at 25 paces...and as such, your practice should include firing from hip or waist level with close-body retention included instead of spending too much time and ammunition working on tight groups at 15-25 yards."

"In an up-close-and-personal attack such as described...assuming you can even see the sights...if you take the time to use them, it could be the last thing that you ever see. So, devote at least part of your self-training to close quarters defense."[/COLOR][/I]

So I started with the average distance between losing my life and taking that of another. Think about it, 21 feet?!

I use an OWB paddle style holster so when apparel options allowed me to conceal more bulk and put a bigger hole in the attacker I went with this Sig in .45 ACP as my primary:

When my primary is not practical in spring/summer I use my secondary Ruger LC9 in 9 mm:
20.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015
Attachies no workie, Bob...
21.) Deerminator - 01/07/2015
Law enforcement shootings are more like 100 shots fired, mostly by LEO's and only a few shoots actually hitting the target.No matter the distance.
22.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015

I'm only laughing because I know how true that can be...:shh: Not saying it's typical...LOL
23.) bluecat - 01/07/2015
[QUOTE=Deerminator;28385]Law enforcement shootings are more like 100 shots fired, mostly by LEO's and only a few shoots actually hitting the target.No matter the distance.[/QUOTE]

Deerminator is lighting it up today. I remember a comment that you made back in 1997 that was pretty funny too.
24.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015
25.) bluecat - 01/07/2015
That's nothing, I knew a guy once who had the reigns in his teeth and he shot multiple bad guys...
26.) Bob Peck - 01/07/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28376]Attachies no workie, Bob...[/QUOTE]

I'm throwing Alex under the bus. The upload feature (i.e. pics) doesn't appear to be working properly. Openly stating this will force Alex to fix the problem without admitting culpability or that there even was a problem. He will then promptly throw me under the bus claiming user error.

In the meantime ... I'll use links.

I use an OWB paddle style holster so when apparel options allowed me to conceal more bulk and put a bigger hole in the attacker I went with this Sig in .45 ACP as my primary: [url]http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-carry-scorpion.aspx[/url]

When my primary is not practical in spring/summer I use my secondary Ruger LC9 in 9 mm: [url]http://ruger.com/products/lc9s/models.html[/url]
27.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015
I can't get pics to load off my computer either...Long-standing problem on this version of Somethingcountry.com...And when I can/could get pics to load, they appear as thumbnails.

Photobucket is about to drive me nuts though...Seems very buggy lately.

So, few pics from me...

Thanks for the links.
28.) Deerminator - 01/07/2015
[QUOTE=bluecat;28391]Deerminator is lighting it up today. I remember a comment that you made back in 1997 that was pretty funny too.[/QUOTE]

yep:tu:One of many
29.) Swamp Fox - 01/07/2015

Not here except with competition shooters, from what I can tell. It's fairly popular elsewhere, apparently. Does anybody besides Colt make a pistol in it? Seems like Taurus would but I don't see anything when I Goober it.
30.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2015
I thought I'd throw this up in here from The Official Gun Show Thread, for the sake of posterity and to pump things up around here.

[QUOTE=bluecat;28883]I got a Cabelas flyer in the mail yesterday. They list a Colt Mustang. Weren't you looking at that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28886]Yes, I handled an XSP at the gun show. I didn't get to examine it under a microscope but it felt good in my hand. I'm not sure the safety is as well done as it could have been, but it was zip-tied in exactly the wrong manner for me to play with it and I didn't feel like asking for it to be unshackled. I was looking at it more out of curiosity than anything else. It was a first edition and engraved as such, not that I care, I think most advertisements of that sort on a firearm are usually tacky and detract from the piece. Cosmetically, though, and with the "First Edition" engraving aside, it was a VERY good looking pistol. I think the standard- run models are the definition of plain-jane. Otherwise, fit and finish looked good.

As I walked away, I realized I had already forgotten my impression of the sights, which tells me they were nothing special, neither awful nor well-done. Then again, they could be super-duper on the first edition and it was just too late in the day for me to care, lol. I don't see anything special about the sights on regular-run models in the literature.

If I see another Mustang, I'd like to look at it more closely, but my gut tells me the Sig P238 is the better pistol in a head-to-head. The Sig was supposed to be a direct alternative to the Mustang, I believe conceived and gaining its toehold during the period when the Mustang was either lagging in production or temporarily discontinued.[/QUOTE]
31.) Deerminator - 01/22/2015
32.) bluecat - 01/22/2015
Any leanings toward a striker fired pistol? I know that Glock makes a single-stack .380 that will fit in the palm of your hand.

Any choice of those that your were looking at I'm sure would fit the bill.
33.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2015
I have nothing against striker-fired pistols at all, but anything in .380 that I'm even remotely attracted to happens to be hammer-fired. I have some pretty restrictive criteria for a .380 pistol, though (size, weight, handling), so there are some more-than-decent pistols I rule out from the get-go.

And I admit to a deaf ear and a blind eye to anything Glock. This is almost purely brand and cosmetic bias with only a pinch of sound personal reasoning thrown in, just to keep things honest. :wink
34.) bluecat - 01/22/2015
I kind of dismissed Glock early on but they have since won me over. They are sexy in their own way...

Always dependable though.
35.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2015

36.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28904]...anything in .380 that I'm even remotely attracted to happens to be hammer-fired...[/QUOTE]

Let me qualify that. A slight overstatement, perhaps. I considered the striker-fired Kahr P or CW close to a perfect .380 (for a DAO) for my size and weight criteria, until I got my hands on one.

Although I like or at least don't have much bad to say about the grips on a PM or CW 9 (perhaps a bit aggressive), I immediately noticed the grip on the little .380 felt too thin (in addition to being short) and “didn’t sit well.” I am not able to fill my hands (though I have been called a son of a bitch) and that bothers me.

Not that I have high expectations on a pistol this small, or can put into words why another grip of similar size feels better, but a grip you don’t like is like obscenity. To paraphrase the judge, you know it when you feel it.

The grip of the P/CW .380 is so noticeably "not me" that I have almost completely written it off. This is to say nothing of the reliability questions that swirl around Kahrs (I heard it on the internet) or one or two other things buzzing around in this space between my ears.

Really, a few things about the Kahr prevent me from yelling "Shut up and take my money!" (Not that I'd be interested in owning firearms in the first place, you understand.) But I’ll just drone on about the grip for now.

I haven't completely stopped fondling the Kahr .380s when I see them, though, and I suppose there's the possibility that some grip tape could change my mind. So I guess I can't really say I'm not even [I]remotely[/I] interested in this gun. Because I am. Interested. Remotely.
37.) Deerminator - 01/23/2015
SIG, 938
38.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2015
Let me know when they start making it in .380, and lose a half-inch off the front. :wink That would make a nice little pistol. :laugh:
39.) Deerminator - 01/23/2015

40.) Deerminator - 01/23/2015

41.) Wild Bob - 01/23/2015
I don't have time right now to read through all the previous comments...and this may have already been brought up, so if it has, oh-well...but here it goes:

In my opinion, and based on what I've seen (and I don't claim to be an expert, just an average outdoorsman with alittle more exposure to shooting than most weekend warriors).

I agree with the comments that I read regarding the .380 being under powered. In this day and age, with jacked up crazy people running around...it is under powered. I mean, look at recent history: That is the whole reason law enforcement (FBI) had a heavy hand in developing the .40 S&W... The traditional calibers just weren't dropping the bad guys like they did 20 years ago! (No surprises there in my opinion...)

However, I offer this as well from putting in some time at the range: In this day and age (again!) in society's often misguided belief of more and bigger is always better - there are a whole bunch of guys running around out there that can't shoot a .45 or even any compact very well. Sure, if they are being rushed and pulling a shot under 10 yards...may be ok (but more buts here...thats based on relaxed performance at a range - not a crisis situation!), call me old school, but if you are going to carry a gun, IMO one should be proficient with it and not just at nearly point blank range.

Look at in terms like this: Would you rather be in a close urban environment and be near someone (you don't even know) that can pull their firearm and be deadly accurate with it, or would you rather they pull and blast wildly because they can't shoot well? Granted that scenario is limited and probably not extremely realistic, but it can happen (how many times in the news do you read about gang bangers shooting unintentional targets????) For that matter, take that argument a step further: walls in apartments / hotels...I'd hope if any funky sh%t was going down next door - there wouldn't be stray bullets coming through the wall.

So therefore, I still think the .380 still has its place in training/practice, general use by [I]casual pistol owners[/I], use by (especially) smaller people and some women, as well as for use in back up.

Ok, I'll shut up now.
42.) bluecat - 01/23/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28913]I am not able to fill my hands (though I have been called a son of a bitch) and that bothers me.

Bonus points for the contextual reference.
43.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2015

I'm just glad somebody saw it...:wink
44.) bluecat - 01/23/2015
After one of the self-defense shootings recently, the liberal news magazine reporter asked the panel of liberals what had everyone learned from this event.

I shouted that maybe a 40 isn't enough firepower.
45.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2015
You're a troublemaker, you know that?

46.) bluecat - 01/23/2015

47.) Deerminator - 01/23/2015
48.) bluecat - 01/23/2015
I'm still trying to get my head around you and a .380.

For some reason, I just don't picture you as a .380 type guy.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...
49.) bluecat - 01/23/2015
You definately don't have any compensation issues like Wild Bob.
50.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2015

It's a fashion thing, like not wearing white after Labor Day.

The old .41 mag hogleg clashes with my shorts and flip-flops after Easter. :wink
51.) Wild Bob - 01/24/2015
[QUOTE=bluecat;28937]You definately don't have any compensation issues like Wild Bob.[/QUOTE]
Hahahahhha! You funny! Lol.

I don't usually carry big guns, but when I do...
Stay alive my friends!

Hey now, just for the record...I only own one big bore rifle, in the handgun dept...I'm a .40, .357, and .22 guy; no compensation going on there. :) :)

Heck...eveny Swampy totin bigger when he's wearing his white polyester suit! Lol. :)