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1.) bluecat - 03/08/2016
Here is a really nice article on hand positioning with some clear pics on do's and don'ts.
One thing that I discovered as I paper tune my bows is that a slight change in grip produces a left or right tear indicating center shot misalignment when in actuality the only problem is hand position.
When I bought my Defiant I drew the bow back as the salesman looked on. He immediately noticed some form errors which I embarrassingly acknowledged and am learning to correct.
[url]http://www.lancasterarchery.com/blog/correct-hand-position-is-key-to-a-good-shot/[/url]
One thing that I discovered as I paper tune my bows is that a slight change in grip produces a left or right tear indicating center shot misalignment when in actuality the only problem is hand position.
When I bought my Defiant I drew the bow back as the salesman looked on. He immediately noticed some form errors which I embarrassingly acknowledged and am learning to correct.
[url]http://www.lancasterarchery.com/blog/correct-hand-position-is-key-to-a-good-shot/[/url]
2.) Swamp Fox - 03/08/2016
That pad looks like a good little gizmo to learn with.
Dirty little secret of archery shop bow technicians: If they shoot enough, they know how to torque your bow to get you a bullet hole even when their best tune won't give anyone else who's not doing the same torque an "acceptable" tear. Once I realized that, I became immediately suspicious of any bow shop that never lets customers shoot their own paper before leaving the shop, LOL.
Back when I had a good pro-shop to go to, they would let me and a few other regular customers shoot through paper ourselves because they knew we wouldn't be all over the place with our tears. (I always tried to knock the rust off my form before going up there, and said I was only about 80% likely to pull off a perfect shot three times in a row. :-) I like to drop my bow arm, or punch the trigger, among other things LOL:tap: ---I think they appreciated the honesty, and I also tried to avoid visiting when they were busy.)
In the normal course of things, the guys behind the counter want to shoot through paper themselves and send the average customer on his way with a warm fuzzy feeling that "the shop tuned my bow." I think if more people had a paper rack at home they'd get back from the shop and start tearing their hair out about "whatever happened to my bow between the shop and my driveway."
Dirty little secret of archery shop bow technicians: If they shoot enough, they know how to torque your bow to get you a bullet hole even when their best tune won't give anyone else who's not doing the same torque an "acceptable" tear. Once I realized that, I became immediately suspicious of any bow shop that never lets customers shoot their own paper before leaving the shop, LOL.
Back when I had a good pro-shop to go to, they would let me and a few other regular customers shoot through paper ourselves because they knew we wouldn't be all over the place with our tears. (I always tried to knock the rust off my form before going up there, and said I was only about 80% likely to pull off a perfect shot three times in a row. :-) I like to drop my bow arm, or punch the trigger, among other things LOL:tap: ---I think they appreciated the honesty, and I also tried to avoid visiting when they were busy.)
In the normal course of things, the guys behind the counter want to shoot through paper themselves and send the average customer on his way with a warm fuzzy feeling that "the shop tuned my bow." I think if more people had a paper rack at home they'd get back from the shop and start tearing their hair out about "whatever happened to my bow between the shop and my driveway."
3.) bluecat - 03/08/2016
Swampy, I have not heard of someone besides the customer shooting the customer's bow when paper tuning.
On one hand (pun unintended) I can see why if the customer has really questionable form (beginner most likely), the technician doesn't want to spend all day trying to get a bow to shoot well when it is a lost cause. But really, anyone besides a beginner should be making those shots through paper themselves.
I made a paper tuner with some 2x4s. It ain't pretty but it holds a sheet of newspaper...
I was just amazed at how your hand form can affect those tears and how one might spend a lot of time moving the rest when the answer was a better grip.
On one hand (pun unintended) I can see why if the customer has really questionable form (beginner most likely), the technician doesn't want to spend all day trying to get a bow to shoot well when it is a lost cause. But really, anyone besides a beginner should be making those shots through paper themselves.
I made a paper tuner with some 2x4s. It ain't pretty but it holds a sheet of newspaper...
I was just amazed at how your hand form can affect those tears and how one might spend a lot of time moving the rest when the answer was a better grip.
4.) bluecat - 03/08/2016
I liked the picture of the knuckles angling out at a 45 degree angle. That would be a pretty easy check for someone to see if they are gripping the bow correctly so as to not induce torque.
5.) Swamp Fox - 03/08/2016
I suppose it depends on the shop and how busy they are. I'm just no longer surprised when a technician doesn't offer to let the customer shoot paper himself. These are off-the-street customers, mind you. I think you get treated a little better if the techs know you. All bets are off if they have a picture of you posted behind the counter, though. "Watch out for this guy." LOL
Other tricks for learning consistent hand position I've come across include strategically placed traction strips on the grip, Sharpie marks on grip and hand, etc. Being aware of the palm's lifeline, thumb meat and the strong bone at the top of the wrist get recommended a lot, too.
Other tricks for learning consistent hand position I've come across include strategically placed traction strips on the grip, Sharpie marks on grip and hand, etc. Being aware of the palm's lifeline, thumb meat and the strong bone at the top of the wrist get recommended a lot, too.
6.) bluecat - 03/08/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;40081]All bets are off if they have a picture of you posted behind the counter, though. "Watch out for this guy." LOL[/QUOTE]
LOL! I'm sure they have a list and when that customer walks in they immediately go to the restroom and try to wait them out.
Look at the evolution of bow grips over the years. The old grips just locked your hand into a high wrist situation (old Mathews grips). Now grips are thin and not so ergonomic which allow you to hold your bow without torque.
LOL! I'm sure they have a list and when that customer walks in they immediately go to the restroom and try to wait them out.
Look at the evolution of bow grips over the years. The old grips just locked your hand into a high wrist situation (old Mathews grips). Now grips are thin and not so ergonomic which allow you to hold your bow without torque.
7.) Swamp Fox - 03/08/2016
As long as you torque the bow the same way every time, you can muddle through. :wink
One of these days I'd like to take some sho-nuff professional instruction to learn what I've been doing wrong all these years. I've been lucky enough to rub elbows with some of the old-school local cream of the crop, but you know how that is sometimes.
A few years ago I asked on here if anyone was interested in meeting up for a Weekend at Bernie's, but there wasn't much interest. I think one or two of our old regulars have been on their own.
[url]http://www.robinhoodvideos.com/shooterschool.html[/url]
One of these days I'd like to take some sho-nuff professional instruction to learn what I've been doing wrong all these years. I've been lucky enough to rub elbows with some of the old-school local cream of the crop, but you know how that is sometimes.
A few years ago I asked on here if anyone was interested in meeting up for a Weekend at Bernie's, but there wasn't much interest. I think one or two of our old regulars have been on their own.
[url]http://www.robinhoodvideos.com/shooterschool.html[/url]
8.) Hunter - 03/08/2016
Good find, BC!
Whenever I have one of my back-to-basics practice sessions, I just concentrate on having the bow have as little contact as possible with my bow hand. The same with my release, I try not to grip it and only use trigger finger pressure to fire.
Whenever I have one of my back-to-basics practice sessions, I just concentrate on having the bow have as little contact as possible with my bow hand. The same with my release, I try not to grip it and only use trigger finger pressure to fire.
9.) bluecat - 03/24/2016
Found this image that really illustrates it well.
10.) Jon - 03/24/2016
One really easy way to know you aren't torqueing the bow is to lay your fingers on the backbone of the riser. This is a sure fire guarantee since there's the positive feel of your fingertips touching the riser and knowing that there's no possible way you can grip and induce any torque.
I've also heard of bow shops not using the customer's arrow while paper tuning which is like installing a Holley double pumper quadrajet and twin turbos and then removing them after dyno testing. WHY would you do that?
Grip is a HUGE factor.
To prove it, try this:
Draw your bow with your normal grip on the bow, once at full draw, squeeze the bow and notice how much the riser moves. This induced torque will affect the string travel and since the arrow is on the string, arrow travel off the bow is affected.
I've also heard of bow shops not using the customer's arrow while paper tuning which is like installing a Holley double pumper quadrajet and twin turbos and then removing them after dyno testing. WHY would you do that?
Grip is a HUGE factor.
To prove it, try this:
Draw your bow with your normal grip on the bow, once at full draw, squeeze the bow and notice how much the riser moves. This induced torque will affect the string travel and since the arrow is on the string, arrow travel off the bow is affected.
11.) bluecat - 03/24/2016
Good tip Jon.
12.) bluecat - 03/24/2016
The one thing I don't get, is I need to grip the bow to draw it back. I then switch to the torqueless grip. Are other people able to draw the bow back without using their fingers?
13.) Jon - 03/24/2016
Yes, as soon as you have your release hooked onto your string you should then position your bow hand as you would when you are at full draw. The pressure you are maintaining with the release hand is sufficient to hold the bow. I think I draw with an open hand and then put my fingertips on the riser.
14.) bluecat - 03/24/2016
I'll try that. It's probably just a habit from my old days of bad grip.
15.) DParker - 03/24/2016
Ditto. Once I have the release connected I immediately withdraw my fingers from the grip.
16.) Triton Rich - 03/24/2016
[B]When I brought home my Destroyer and tried to tune it, I discovered that my grip sucked. I was able to get away with it and even shoot pretty darn well with my Old Glory. Apparently there really is something to the heavy, long ATA, long brace height being more forgiving thing. Once I did a little studying on how to grip the bow, my Destroyer tuned quite easily. My grip is one of the key things that I keep in mind when the moment of truth arrives with a deer standing there.[/B]
17.) Jon - 03/24/2016
Glad you figured it out quickly Rich, some folks get pretty frustrated with a new bow because of things like this. Another complaint with a new bow happens after you put it down for the first time and then go back a few days later and shoot it again, if your arrows are not hitting where they were the first time, don't adjust the rest to compensate, look at your draw sequence and make sure it's consistent.
Everyone should have a routine that is the exact same every time from hooking the release to the string right through following the arrow after it has been released. One small change will have some effect.
Everyone should have a routine that is the exact same every time from hooking the release to the string right through following the arrow after it has been released. One small change will have some effect.