vBCms Comments
Welcome To Hunting Country
General Hunting Forums
Archery & Bowhunting
Shooting Sports
Manufacturers' Corner
Firearms
Classifieds
Not Hunting / General Chit Chat
1.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
My Rocky boots I purchased 20 years ago are way past their prime. They have been a great boot for years. I have since purchased a pare of Rocky Bear Claw II boots.
When I pulled them out several years ago, I noticed the soles had literally melted in the box. I wrote Rocky and they didn't offer any help at all. I thought it was a Rocky problem.
Fast forward to last week when I pulled out my Browning boots (that had only been worn a few times) to replace the older Rocky boots. Whoa, same thing. The boot had melted. Yes, that's right, melted in the box.
The sole you see is basically a jelly like consistency and touching it leaves a thick black muck on your fingers.
I had heard from another forum thread years ago on this topic that Rocky said you must wear the boot or it will do that. Yeah right.
Well today I found this.
[url]http://www.blokesontheblog.co.uk/why-you-should-avoid-shoes-with-molded-polyurethane-soles/[/url]
[I]So why do the synthetic soles on contemporary shoes disintegrate when they are not used?
Apparently shoes with a molded polyurethane (PU) sole is prone to a form of deterioration called “hydrolysis”, especially in coastal, humid areas, when not worn. But when you wear them pressure on the soles squeezes out the moisture, which would otherwise insidiously break apart the foam-like structure. So it’s possible for a pair of unworn or barely worn shoes to disintegrate. It’s probably best not to purchase last year’s fashion, or if you must have them re-soled and heeled at once as a precaution!
[/I]
When I contacted Browning they were more than helpful and offered to defray the cost of getting them resoled. I took the boots to a cobbler yesterday who said he could repair the sole but could not repair the inside of the boot which basically was a jelly-like goo as well.
Get a rubber outsole people!
When I pulled them out several years ago, I noticed the soles had literally melted in the box. I wrote Rocky and they didn't offer any help at all. I thought it was a Rocky problem.
Fast forward to last week when I pulled out my Browning boots (that had only been worn a few times) to replace the older Rocky boots. Whoa, same thing. The boot had melted. Yes, that's right, melted in the box.
The sole you see is basically a jelly like consistency and touching it leaves a thick black muck on your fingers.
I had heard from another forum thread years ago on this topic that Rocky said you must wear the boot or it will do that. Yeah right.
Well today I found this.
[url]http://www.blokesontheblog.co.uk/why-you-should-avoid-shoes-with-molded-polyurethane-soles/[/url]
[I]So why do the synthetic soles on contemporary shoes disintegrate when they are not used?
Apparently shoes with a molded polyurethane (PU) sole is prone to a form of deterioration called “hydrolysis”, especially in coastal, humid areas, when not worn. But when you wear them pressure on the soles squeezes out the moisture, which would otherwise insidiously break apart the foam-like structure. So it’s possible for a pair of unworn or barely worn shoes to disintegrate. It’s probably best not to purchase last year’s fashion, or if you must have them re-soled and heeled at once as a precaution!
[/I]
When I contacted Browning they were more than helpful and offered to defray the cost of getting them resoled. I took the boots to a cobbler yesterday who said he could repair the sole but could not repair the inside of the boot which basically was a jelly-like goo as well.
Get a rubber outsole people!
2.) bow-fishhunter - 09/23/2016
EPA!
I went with Irish setter last year. so far I really like them...
I went with Irish setter last year. so far I really like them...
3.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
What is EPA?
4.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
EPA---Excessive Protection Agency----Maybe it's an "environmental" thing---Rubber trees endangered? Petroleum products? Moon in the seventh house? (Isn't petroleum in just about everything like this? I don't know. That's just an impression I have.)
Dang, though. I'm gonna have to check a few pairs. I have a few special-purpose boots I don't wear much, and a few new in the box. When I find something I like, I usually buy at least one extra pair, because--you know--that means they're gonna stop making them pretty soon. It never fails.
I'll report back.
Dang, though. I'm gonna have to check a few pairs. I have a few special-purpose boots I don't wear much, and a few new in the box. When I find something I like, I usually buy at least one extra pair, because--you know--that means they're gonna stop making them pretty soon. It never fails.
I'll report back.
5.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
Sounds like if you have a good Vibram rubber outsole you won't experience these problems. Soles that are molded to the sole (injection molding that comes out of a spigot and is shape around bottom of boot) are most likely the culprits.
6.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
It was going to cost 155.00 to get them resoled with a nice vibram outsole. That was until he put his hand in the boot and then said, "There's nothing I can do."
7.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44235]EPA---Excessive Protection Agency----Maybe it's an "environmental" thing---Rubber trees endangered? Petroleum products? Moon in the seventh house? (Isn't petroleum in just about everything like this? I don't know. That's just an impression I have.)
Dang, though. I'm gonna have to check a few pairs. I have a few special-purpose boots I don't wear much, and a few new in the box. When I find something I like, I usually buy at least one extra pair, because--you know--that means they're gonna stop making them pretty soon. It never fails.
I'll report back.[/QUOTE]
EVA is ethyl vinyl acetate and is used in midsoles in running shoes. I do know that, but we are talking outsole here.
Dang, though. I'm gonna have to check a few pairs. I have a few special-purpose boots I don't wear much, and a few new in the box. When I find something I like, I usually buy at least one extra pair, because--you know--that means they're gonna stop making them pretty soon. It never fails.
I'll report back.[/QUOTE]
EVA is ethyl vinyl acetate and is used in midsoles in running shoes. I do know that, but we are talking outsole here.
8.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
Any boot that has an outsole that is sewn on will last forever and can be resoled. That is why I got so upset when Danner went with the molded outsole.
9.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
I've had pretty poor luck with Rocky. The range on their warranty ran from not-very-interested-in-my-problem to there's-nothing-we-can-do on two or three pairs.
I had a pair of Irish Setters that gave me a huge problem the first time I wore them (after what I thought was a decent break-in) but then became some of my favorites after a sock change and a removal from steep-terrain duty, until the sole (seemingly stitched!) started coming away from the upper. Probably hadn't worn them more than 20 days when that happened, but they had gone unused for a couple of years after the first disaster. Maybe something deteriorated, but I can't image how. It's not like I kept them in a harsh environment. (Well, right now my house is a pretty harsh environment...Where's a French maid when you need one?)
Danner's quality has slipped over the years, I think, and you (I) have to watch them on their sizing. But they're good to deal with if you have a problem.
I've had great luck with Cabela's Meindl-made leather boots. Kennetrek is also worth looking at if they have something that works for what you need your boots to do. Whether they're too pricey is in the eye of the user.
I had a pair of Irish Setters that gave me a huge problem the first time I wore them (after what I thought was a decent break-in) but then became some of my favorites after a sock change and a removal from steep-terrain duty, until the sole (seemingly stitched!) started coming away from the upper. Probably hadn't worn them more than 20 days when that happened, but they had gone unused for a couple of years after the first disaster. Maybe something deteriorated, but I can't image how. It's not like I kept them in a harsh environment. (Well, right now my house is a pretty harsh environment...Where's a French maid when you need one?)
Danner's quality has slipped over the years, I think, and you (I) have to watch them on their sizing. But they're good to deal with if you have a problem.
I've had great luck with Cabela's Meindl-made leather boots. Kennetrek is also worth looking at if they have something that works for what you need your boots to do. Whether they're too pricey is in the eye of the user.
10.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
I've heard nothing but bad things about Rocky. The pair of mine lasted 20 years so, they made an about face somewhere down the line and outsourced all their manufacturing to China to the detriment of quality.
Chippewa are nice boots and Redwings I believe stand behind their boots but only if they haven't been in manure first...:wink
Chippewa are nice boots and Redwings I believe stand behind their boots but only if they haven't been in manure first...:wink
11.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
What is it with companies that build their brand and then outsource thinking just the name is enough?
12.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;44237]It was going to cost 155.00 to get them resoled with a nice vibram outsole. That was until he put his hand in the boot and then said, "There's nothing I can do."[/QUOTE]
Check with a different cobbler for the next time. That sounds excessive, although the only Vibram soles I've put on have been on boots that were probably easier to work than what I'm guessing those Brownings are, and they were flat soles, not lugged.
You also might want to keep this guy in your hip pocket: [url]http://davepagecobbler.com/...He's[/url] an authorized repair place for some of the better boot companies. He can tell you by email if there's any hope. I have dealt with him on two occasions, although it turned out that neither pair had a prayer from the beginning.
I hear you on the molded vs. stitched, but even stitched isn't a guarantee if it's not done well.
Check with a different cobbler for the next time. That sounds excessive, although the only Vibram soles I've put on have been on boots that were probably easier to work than what I'm guessing those Brownings are, and they were flat soles, not lugged.
You also might want to keep this guy in your hip pocket: [url]http://davepagecobbler.com/...He's[/url] an authorized repair place for some of the better boot companies. He can tell you by email if there's any hope. I have dealt with him on two occasions, although it turned out that neither pair had a prayer from the beginning.
I hear you on the molded vs. stitched, but even stitched isn't a guarantee if it's not done well.
13.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
True, stitched really means there is some sort of welt or stiff leather piece that is the bridge between outsole and upper. Blown or molded outsoles are just glued to upper.
Thanks for url.
Thanks for url.
14.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
Forgot to mention Lowa and Vasque. If they have something that works for you, I've been VERY pleased with mine, although I don't have a pure "hunting" boot from either of them. I've had multiple light and medium hikers from each, though.
I think I looked at some Lowas for hunting several years ago, but decided they were more than I needed, or wouldn't get the use out of them for the money, or something. I don't remember.
I think I looked at some Lowas for hunting several years ago, but decided they were more than I needed, or wouldn't get the use out of them for the money, or something. I don't remember.
15.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
It isn't easy finding a leather boot, 8", that isn't insulated and doesn't look like it was made for a lunar landing.
16.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
Very true, LOL. My term for them is Mickey Mouse Boots.
[url]http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_clothing_mm_boots.php[/url]
Looking for uninsulated leather boots suitable for hunting is the worst. If I think of anything else that worked for me, I'll let you know.
If you have to wind up going with a desert boot (LOL) I like Lowa and the Bates M8 for that.:beer:
[url]http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_clothing_mm_boots.php[/url]
Looking for uninsulated leather boots suitable for hunting is the worst. If I think of anything else that worked for me, I'll let you know.
If you have to wind up going with a desert boot (LOL) I like Lowa and the Bates M8 for that.:beer:
17.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
I have two pair of those Mickey Mouse boots. Ugly as hell but use them for late season hunting. Very warm.
Not for hiking or walking obviously.
I can get by not wearing an insulated boot up until November and sometimes later than that depending.
Not for hiking or walking obviously.
I can get by not wearing an insulated boot up until November and sometimes later than that depending.
18.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
The trouble with hunting boots is the person designing them wears crocs and only ventures off his/her sidewalk far enough to retrieve the paper errantly thrown in the yard.
19.) DParker - 09/23/2016
I have a pair of Rocky lace+zipper snake boots that I bought at least 5 years ago that are still in excellent condition. Then again, I'm not exceptionally rough on hunting boots. I do put some miles on the soles and get the boots pretty wet and muddy, and also drag them through a lot of brambles and other thorny undergrowth...but I'm not climbing rocks or other similarly really abrasive terrain, so maybe that's a factor.
20.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
I don't think it really is a wear issue per say but a construction issue. Some people have older boots before the outsourcing that are fine. Other people, they literally walk out of their boot. You can see on my boot that they are virtually unused but trashed.
21.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
I say outsourcing but I really don't know what they did. Maybe they just changed the recipe for their outsoles and have always been made in China. Don't know, don't care.
22.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
Rocky seems to like to go through design changes. A boot that doesn't hold up doesn't stay in their line-up more than two years, say. Not that Corporate gets more quality-minded. People just don't buy what's turning out to be crap at some point, so the suits eventually figure that out when they look at the spreadsheet.
Now, I do hear better things about their snake boots that are more recent than the two different models that I own. One's only good for light work with little walking because the soles are coming off, and the other had to have better zippers put on them (at my expense) after little more than a year. That pair replaced a pair that had the soles separate in under a year (under warranty.)
Actually forgot a lot of the details of that nightmare! LOL
Now, I do hear better things about their snake boots that are more recent than the two different models that I own. One's only good for light work with little walking because the soles are coming off, and the other had to have better zippers put on them (at my expense) after little more than a year. That pair replaced a pair that had the soles separate in under a year (under warranty.)
Actually forgot a lot of the details of that nightmare! LOL
23.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
I'd like to think what you said was true.
In my mind I'm hearing, "How can we make our products more cheaply and still get away with it? Pass the cavier please." :wink
In my mind I'm hearing, "How can we make our products more cheaply and still get away with it? Pass the cavier please." :wink
24.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=DParker;44252]I have a pair of Rocky lace+zipper snake boots that I bought at least 5 years ago...[/QUOTE]
That's close to the time they made a change from the newer of the two models I had trouble with. I could tell from a pic, but I'm too lazy to go looking.
That's close to the time they made a change from the newer of the two models I had trouble with. I could tell from a pic, but I'm too lazy to go looking.
25.) Jon - 09/23/2016
I just bought my first pair of non-rubber hunting boots, went with Danner "High Ground" 8" uninsulated. They are very light and comfortable. I don't have any rough terrain to deal with so that wasn't a player in my decision. I have always used rubber boots for hunting (Muck specifically) but wanted to see if a non-rubber boot would keep my feet cooler.
26.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
One reason I like the uninsulated leather boots so much is they are so nice for non-hunting related activities and provide a level of foot protection as well, all year round.
27.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44245]Forgot to mention Lowa and Vasque. If they have something that works for you, I've been VERY pleased with mine, although I don't have a pure "hunting" boot from either of them. I've had multiple light and medium hikers from each, though.
I think I looked at some Lowas for hunting several years ago, but decided they were more than I needed, or wouldn't get the use out of them for the money, or something. I don't remember.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bluecat;44246]It isn't easy finding a leather boot, 8", that isn't insulated and doesn't look like it was made for a lunar landing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44249]Very true, LOL. ...
Looking for uninsulated leather boots suitable for hunting is the worst. If I think of anything else that worked for me, I'll let you know.
If you have to wind up going with a desert boot (LOL) I like Lowa and the Bates M8 for that.:beer:[/QUOTE]
Just went back and looked at Lowa's hunting boots and remembered the reason I passed was they were too short. I like a tall hunting boot, but I bet I'm in a fairly small club there. They might be worth a look to others. Vasque didn't have anything except the non-hunting boots I was familiar with.
And I was wrong...Now I remember: Looking for a leather hunting boot (at LEAST 8 inches) uninsulated, and WITHOUT GORETEX is the worst. That's why I mentioned the desert boots, even though I LOL'd. You really have to turn over some rocks in the hunting category to find anything without. Goretex walks very hot here.
Try here. Even some of the best boots Cabela's puts their name on are not resolable, but at least you'd have the Cabela's life-of-the-product warranty:
[url]http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/mens-uninsulated-hunting-boots/cabelas/_/N-1102520+1000002949/Ne-1000002949/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_105543180?WTz_st=GuidedNav&WTz_stype=GNU[/url]
BTW, Cabela's search feature at least in this category may not be up to snuff. (When I typed in "hunting boots" on one go-round, it asked me if I meant "hunting boats"---LOL). I'd search for Meindl separately, because I can see a few models missing at the link.
I think I looked at some Lowas for hunting several years ago, but decided they were more than I needed, or wouldn't get the use out of them for the money, or something. I don't remember.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bluecat;44246]It isn't easy finding a leather boot, 8", that isn't insulated and doesn't look like it was made for a lunar landing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44249]Very true, LOL. ...
Looking for uninsulated leather boots suitable for hunting is the worst. If I think of anything else that worked for me, I'll let you know.
If you have to wind up going with a desert boot (LOL) I like Lowa and the Bates M8 for that.:beer:[/QUOTE]
Just went back and looked at Lowa's hunting boots and remembered the reason I passed was they were too short. I like a tall hunting boot, but I bet I'm in a fairly small club there. They might be worth a look to others. Vasque didn't have anything except the non-hunting boots I was familiar with.
And I was wrong...Now I remember: Looking for a leather hunting boot (at LEAST 8 inches) uninsulated, and WITHOUT GORETEX is the worst. That's why I mentioned the desert boots, even though I LOL'd. You really have to turn over some rocks in the hunting category to find anything without. Goretex walks very hot here.
Try here. Even some of the best boots Cabela's puts their name on are not resolable, but at least you'd have the Cabela's life-of-the-product warranty:
[url]http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/mens-uninsulated-hunting-boots/cabelas/_/N-1102520+1000002949/Ne-1000002949/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_105543180?WTz_st=GuidedNav&WTz_stype=GNU[/url]
BTW, Cabela's search feature at least in this category may not be up to snuff. (When I typed in "hunting boots" on one go-round, it asked me if I meant "hunting boats"---LOL). I'd search for Meindl separately, because I can see a few models missing at the link.
28.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=Jon;44263]I just bought my first pair of non-rubber hunting boots, went with Danner "High Ground" 8" uninsulated. [/QUOTE]
Just looked at that. That's the kind of non-rubber, non-leather "mid-height" boot I'd be attracted to as well.
I'd be interested to hear if at any point your favorable opinion changes.
Just looked at that. That's the kind of non-rubber, non-leather "mid-height" boot I'd be attracted to as well.
I'd be interested to hear if at any point your favorable opinion changes.
29.) DParker - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44267]I like a tall hunting boot, but I bet I'm in a fairly small club there.[/QUOTE]
And by "small" you mean "elite".
Given that many of the areas that I hunt are near bodies of water, which these guys also frequent...
...the taller my snake boots the better I like them.
And by "small" you mean "elite".
Given that many of the areas that I hunt are near bodies of water, which these guys also frequent...
...the taller my snake boots the better I like them.
30.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
LOL...Some places, if they were up over my head, that would be great. :wink
31.) bluecat - 09/23/2016
copper headed rattle mocassin
32.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=DParker;44269]...Given that many of the areas that I hunt are near bodies of water, which these guys also frequent...
[/QUOTE]
It's not much better on the dry ground "on the hill" either...LOL
SC Rattler
[/QUOTE]
It's not much better on the dry ground "on the hill" either...LOL
SC Rattler
33.) DParker - 09/23/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;44272]It's not much better on the dry ground "on the hill" either...LOL
SC Rattler
[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry...are you saying that there's a snake somewhere in that photo?
SC Rattler
[/QUOTE]I'm sorry...are you saying that there's a snake somewhere in that photo?
34.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
LOL...That has to be up toward the top of the list of my favorite snake pics.
I did have a bit of a time finding it on command. :wink
I accept your gracious Thank You. :-)
I did have a bit of a time finding it on command. :wink
I accept your gracious Thank You. :-)
35.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2016
Speaking of boot soles and especially of snake boots, one complaint I have is the trend to softer outsoles and less stiff insole platforms, if that's a term I can use for the inside, where the foot actually presses down.
While these "mocs/running shoes" might be great for creeping around where there's nothing on the ground to stick you, they're pretty bad on rocks, staubs, thorns and treesteps. I have to remember not to wear certain boots when walking cypress bottoms with all their low hidden knobs sticking up like little blunt punji stakes, or when setting treestands because I can't stand on a peg with soles that were built to be as close to Keds as they could possibly get them.
I think in the rush to make boots lighter (and---roll eyes-- more "athletic")--especially snake boots with all their material--- we've hit the point of diminishing returns.
While these "mocs/running shoes" might be great for creeping around where there's nothing on the ground to stick you, they're pretty bad on rocks, staubs, thorns and treesteps. I have to remember not to wear certain boots when walking cypress bottoms with all their low hidden knobs sticking up like little blunt punji stakes, or when setting treestands because I can't stand on a peg with soles that were built to be as close to Keds as they could possibly get them.
I think in the rush to make boots lighter (and---roll eyes-- more "athletic")--especially snake boots with all their material--- we've hit the point of diminishing returns.