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1.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
So...





I picked up the brisket at the butcher last night.


There are two briskets shown in the picture.






Trimmed off some of the fat from the one side.


Made a mixture of spices, the ratio being
1 T fresh ground pepper (4 pepper mix)
1 t ginger
1 t nutmeg
1 t all spice
1 t kosher salt

Although it sounds like the mixture is more suitable for pumpkin pie, I had a stew awhile back that was seasoned this way and I couldn't believe the flavor. I figure Simon and Garfunkel had a good run anyway. :wink




Rubbed in the mixture on both sides.



Slathered it with slurry of equal parts yellow mustard and molasses, both sides

Covered and parked it in the fridge till tomorrow night...

Stay tuned
2.) Swamp Fox - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;46117]So...




Although it sounds like the mixture is more suitable for pumpkin pie, I had a stew awhile back that was seasoned this way and I couldn't believe the flavor. I figure Simon and Garfunkel had a good run anyway. :wink

[/QUOTE]



LOL...


I'm just glad somebody's on the forum. I was thinking everybody must have converted to Kwanzaa, or sump'n.
3.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
There's a few hardy souls still around...

Do we get overtime for the holiday season?
4.) DParker - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;46117]There are two briskets shown in the picture.[/quote]

Isn't that actually a single large brisket divided into the flat and point sections?

[QUOTE=bluecat;46117]Made a mixture of spices, the ratio being
1 T fresh ground pepper (4 pepper mix)
1 t ginger
1 t nutmeg
1 t all spice
1 t kosher salt

Although it sounds like the mixture is more suitable for pumpkin pie, I had a stew awhile back that was seasoned this way and I couldn't believe the flavor. I figure Simon and Garfunkel had a good run anyway. :wink[/quote]

Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme? The ginger and nutmeg are certainly interesting choices for beef. I'd really like to hear how it turns out.

[QUOTE=bluecat;46117]Stay tuned[/QUOTE]

I've got my beer, cheetos and recliner all ready.
5.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=DParker;46120]

Isn't that actually a single large brisket divided into the flat and point sections?

[/QUOTE]

Well I wondered that. I asked the guy (young kid) at the counter and he said it was two briskets. I ordered a 12-16 pound brisket and this is what they gave me.
When he brought it, I immediately thought what you did. When I examined them, they appeared to be the same, but then I didn't carve so much fat off of them that they separated (if they were individual briskets).
Hope that made sense.

[QUOTE=DParker;46120]


Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme? The ginger and nutmeg are certainly interesting choices for beef. I'd really like to hear how it turns out.

I've got my beer, cheetos and recliner all ready.[/QUOTE]

Me too. I'll post the whole sordid fiasco.

No parsley, sage, rosemary or thyme.
6.) Swamp Fox - 12/22/2016
Is there a difference in texture or anything else between point and flat?
7.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
If the guy at the counter didn't know what he was talking about (entirely possible given his youth), would the size and shape of the individual pieces still make you think that they were point and flat?

In the upper picture of the two, I'd already removed some fat off the one side. Both pieces had fat on one side.
8.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46122]Is there a difference in texture or anything else between point and flat?[/QUOTE]

DP or billy might know. The two pieces I had appeared to be similar.
9.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
Well I called the butcher and now I know what happened. I ordered a whole brisket and they gave me two briskets (flat sections). The cost was 90.00 which was 40 more than they quoted me. The whole brisket is a lot cheaper because it contains more fat and is untrimmed. To get the weight up to 16 or so pounds they had to include two flat sections. A whole brisket would have been that weight initially. Had I been more savvy, I would have caught that at the counter. The young guy at the counter threw me off by saying that they were two individual whole briskets instead of saying/knowing they were two flat sections from two individual briskets.

So chalk it up to experience. They apologized and would have taken it back, but I already seasoned it up.
10.) billy b - 12/22/2016
It looks to me like he sold you two flats, one smaller than the other, that's the less desirable part (Imo) but some people had rather have it because it has less marbled fat, either way it'll be good if cooked properly, low & slow till an internal temp of 195*.
11.) billy b - 12/22/2016
It took me too long to write mine, got interrupted in the middle.
12.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=billy b;46127]It looks to me like he sold you two flats, one smaller than the other, that's the less desirable part (Imo) but some people had rather have it because it has less marbled fat, either way it'll be good if cooked properly, low & slow till an internal temp of 195*.[/QUOTE]

I've still got your wrapping recipe billy. Planning on using it.
13.) billy b - 12/22/2016
Where do you live bluecat, a 16lb brisket down here in Tx would be about 35 or 40 dollars?
14.) DParker - 12/22/2016
Well, Billy called it correctly then. The photo perspectives made it look to me like one of the cuts was smaller and narrower than the other, causing me to conclude that it was the point...as in this photo:



[QUOTE=billy b;46130]Where do you live bluecat, a 16lb brisket down here in Tx would be about 35 or 40 dollars?[/QUOTE]

$90 for ~16 lbs comes to roughly $5.62/lb. The Local Sam's Club has brisket flats going for $4.77/lb right now, so 16 lbs would still cost $76.32. Whole uncut briskets, on the other hand, are going for $2.99/lb, which would get you 16 lbs for $47.84. Both are regular (not on sale) prices, so you can find them for a little less if you catch a sale.

That's why buying whole and doing your own separating and trimming is the way to go.
15.) Swamp Fox - 12/22/2016
If you're ordering a brisket, whether whole or separated/combined point and flat or one vs. the other, what's the procedure to be on the same page with the butcher?

I assume some recipes tell you to get x pounds of meat and then trim, while others probably tell you to get x pounds of trimmed brisket?

If you tell the butcher you want x pounds of brisket, what's his initial translation of what you're talking about?
16.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
I live in Topeka, Kansas, Billy. Yea, there was some errors made on my part and the butcher's. He quoted me on the phone earlier in the month around 50.00 for whole brisket figuring about a pound per person. Trimmed of course that is less weight, but the person/pound of brisket was based on the whole brisket. So expecting to pay 50.00 I waltz in and he hands me (young kid different than the guy I ordered with) two packages. I immediately think point and flat and ask him. He says two briskets point and flat for each brisket. Error 1. I think to myself, okay maybe to get to 16 pounds they had to combine two briskets. Error 2. Go to pay: 90.00. Instead of questioning the price I figure I misheard the original quote. Error 3. Ordered the brisket a month ago so didn't remember the exact conversation I had a month later. Error 4.

So what did we learn from all this.

Briskets can weigh 16 pounds whole:
Point and flat should be obvious from brisket if whole brisket.
Get whole brisket and pay less and do the trimming yourself.

See kids, sometimes you just wade in, make a bunch of misteaks (see what I did there?) and accumulate knowledge. I hope smoked brisket freezes well cause I'm going to have more than I need so planning on freezing it and eating the remainder at a later date.
17.) DParker - 12/22/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;46134]I live in Topeka, Kansas, Billy. Yea, there was some errors made on my part and the butcher's. He quoted me on the phone earlier in the month around 50.00 for whole brisket figuring about a pound per person. Trimmed of course that is less weight, but the person/pound of brisket was based on the whole brisket. So expecting to pay 50.00 I waltz in and he hands me (young kid different than the guy I ordered with) two packages. I immediately think point and flat and ask him. He says two briskets point and flat for each brisket. Error 1. I think to myself, okay maybe to get to 16 pounds they had to combine two briskets. Error 2. Go to pay: 90.00. Instead of questioning the price I figure I misheard the original quote. Error 3. Ordered the brisket a month ago so didn't remember the exact conversation I had a month later. Error 4.[/QUOTE]

Came here and told a bunch of goobers about it expecting helpful advice. Error 5. :grin:
18.) bluecat - 12/22/2016
+ 5 :-)
19.) Swamp Fox - 12/22/2016
:grin::grin::grin:
20.) bluecat - 12/28/2016


Smoking a little cheese on the side.




When internal temp hit 165, I put a coating of brown sugar and honey on both sides and wrapped 'em up.




At 195 I pulled them. 14 hours of constant monitoring. Added wood every hour on the hour for 14 hours. Couldn't put a larger load of wood in or the temperatures would spike.
Was able to keep it at 200 for the duration.


Very moist. Smoked it with the fat on top. That is the way to go.

When I do another one, I would take just slightly less fat off the one side. Could not taste any of the spice rub I made. The bark was smokey and sweet and the meat was delicious.
21.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
Do you have anything pulling or pushing smoke to the plywood smoker? You don't have more heat/smoke in there, do you? Do you lose a lot of heat between the firebox and the smoke box? Do you ever use the smoke box as a stand-alone? Tell me about the whole set-up when you get time. :-)


Good job on the 14-hour smoke, BTW. That's whole hog professional-grade! :beer:
22.) DParker - 12/28/2016
Looks awesome. Keeping your smoker temp at 200...only 5 degrees above the target temp for the brisket...is interesting. I'm glad to hear that didn't dry out the meat, and might have to give it a try myself if/when I can get one started early enough in the morning that I can let it go for 14 hours. I got an upgraded remote thermometer (an iGrill[SUP]2[/SUP]) for Christmas and I'm itchin' to try it out.
23.) DParker - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46189]You don't have more heat/smoke in there, do you?[/quote]

I would hope not.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46189]Do you lose a lot of heat between the firebox and the smoke box?[/quote]

I would hope so. He's smoking cheese in there, which is a cold smoke procedure. Any heat and he'll have melted blobs of curd...like I did on my first try.
24.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
LOL...Yeah, I was kinda asking generally, not just about the cheese smoke. But doesn't everybody have to melt/burn something before they learn their lesson? That's always been my philosophy, anyway. LOL

I don't know anything about cold smoking except that the smoke has to come from some heat somewhere. A long traverse seems like a good way to do it. :-)
25.) DParker - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46192]LOL...Yeah, I was kinda asking generally, not just about the cheese smoke. But doesn't everybody have to melt/burn something before they learn their lesson? That's always been my philosophy, anyway. LOL

I don't know anything about cold smoking except that the smoke has to come from some heat somewhere. A long traverse seems like a good way to do it. :-)[/QUOTE]

There's also cold-smoking gizmos like the [URL="http://www.amazenproducts.com/product_p/amnts.htm"]A-MAZE-N tube smoker[/URL]...



..., and variants thereon, that you fill with wood pellets and tuck away in a corner of your grill/smoker (I have the one pictured above, which works great). But even those produce some heat, obviously. The first time I tried it I assumed that having all 3 vents on my smoker opened would allow the heat from the smoldering pellets to escape quickly enough to keep the temperature inside cool and prevent the cheese curds I was smoking from melting. I was wrong, and learned that next time I need to either leave the smoker door cracked open just a bit, or rig up some sort of fan and duct-work contraption to push cool air in through one of the vents...though I'm concerned that would only serve to make the pellets burn hotter and faster.
26.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
"Oxygen is fuel"--

I don't know where I first heard that in relation to fire-cooking, and the quote might actually have been "Oxygen is THE fuel," with an explanation that tinder and kindling and wood or briquettes etc. should be called something else in a geeky, perfect world.

It was too much science for me, though, so my mind snapped shut like the steel trap that it is, LOL, but I always remembered the basic point. Apparently [I]vents open > heat loss[/I], or something like that. I leave it to the math geniuses on here to tell me the proper formula/equation/voodoo.

I might have to try that tube smoker, especially if it's more compact than what I use. I have a rectangular sheet metal box with 20 or so small holes in it, approximately 8 x 4 x 2 inches. It holds maybe 3/4 cup woodchips. It works okay but not great. I think it could put out more smoke.

On the other hand, I haven't ruined any food with too much smoke yet. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. :-)
27.) bluecat - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46189]Do you have anything pulling or pushing smoke to the plywood smoker? You don't have more heat/smoke in there, do you? Do you lose a lot of heat between the firebox and the smoke box? Do you ever use the smoke box as a stand-alone? Tell me about the whole set-up when you get time. :-)


Good job on the 14-hour smoke, BTW. That's whole hog professional-grade! :beer:[/QUOTE]

Thank you!


There is no problem getting smoke to the "most excellent" box smoker. It just travels down the dryer vent hose. DP was right, I'm trying to lose as much heat as possible. You can really only cold smoke on a cold day and the temps were in the 30's so I was good to go. The smoke box is never a stand alone and with the tray system I have in there, I could smoke quite a bit of jerky if I wanted to.

I was REALLY missing a wireless temp probe so I could sleep more between monitorings. It's about 60 yards to the "smoke shack" so I don't know if I would lose the signal if I had one.

I will say I will never do an all-nighter again. It's one thing to start it in the morning as you are doing projects around the area where you can pop in easily with the goal of eating the brisket that evening. It's quite another to set your watch's countdown timer to an hour and sleep with it on the nightstand.

The 200 degrees was kind of where the smoker was telling me it liked to be. I was originally aiming for 225 but I seemed to get into a groove at 200. The smokestack and vent can be adjusted but a little can mean a lot so I just didn't want to take any chances. About 4 pieces of split wood (8" x 4") lasted an hour and maintained an even temperature. So I went with it.
28.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
I could be in luck. There's a six-inch version, and a 12.

Note to self: Measure woodchip box tonight.


[QUOTE]Produces smoke for up to 2 hours during Cold Smoking and while supplementing smoke @ 225+ in your grill or smoker.
[/QUOTE]


I think this means it works no matter how you cook/smoke? LOL? Or am I missing something?
29.) bluecat - 12/28/2016
I will mention that cheese doesn't need a lot of smoke time. About 2 hours is all it needs. Give it a flip at some point but cheese soaks up the smoke. Too much smoke and it can overwhelm.
30.) DParker - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46194]I might have to try that tube smoker, especially if it's more compact than what I use. I have a rectangular sheet metal box with 20 or so small holes in it, approximately 8 x 4 x 2 inches. It holds maybe 3/4 cup woodchips. It works okay but not great. I think it could put out more smoke.[/quote]

I have the 12" tube (and no, I'm not just bragging). Filling it completely full of pellets will yield about 3 hours of smoke, with pretty linear reductions in that time easily achievable by filling it only 1/3, 2/3, etc. But if that's not compact enough they offer a 6" model as well.

[QUOTE=bluecat;46195]I was REALLY missing a wireless temp probe so I could sleep more between monitorings. It's about 60 yards to the "smoke shack" so I don't know if I would lose the signal if I had one.[/quote]

It depends on the exact make and model. The iGrill[SUP]2[/SUP] I just upgraded to...



...uses Bluetooth for the connection between it and an app on your mobile device (phone, tablet, whatever), with an advertised range of 150'. But that claim almost certainly refers to optimal line-of-sight conditions, so it probably wouldn't work for you even if they underestimated it. On the other hand, the other one I have (basically a Maverick ET-732 rebranded as the "Ivation" remote thermometer)...



...uses 433.92 MHz transceivers in both the sending and receiving unit (rather than using your phone as the remote receiver), giving it better range (a couple hundred feet at least), as well as being less susceptible to signal blockage by walls and such than the higher frequency used by Bluetooth (2.4 GHz). The Maverick/Ivation is also much less expensive, and works just fine. The only reason I call the iGrill[SUP]2[/SUP] an upgrade is because it can handle up to 4 probes (any combination of meat and/or ambient temp probes) simultaneously, compared with the Maverick's max of 2. I also like using my phone as the receiver station instead of the Maverick's dedicated one because it's one less thing I need to replace batteries in periodically.

[QUOTE=bluecat;46195]I will say I will never do an all-nighter again.[/quote]

If I had a nickle for every time I've said that...
31.) DParker - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46196]I think this means it works no matter how you cook/smoke? LOL? Or am I missing something?[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. You can use it either as the sole source of smoke for cold-smoking, or as an additional source of extra smoke during a hot-smoke (for whatever reason)...or even as the sole source for a hot smoke (maybe the wood pan in your smoker has rusted out, or you're out of wood chunks and only have pellets on hand, or whatever).
32.) bluecat - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=DParker;46199]I have the 12" tube (and no, I'm not just bragging). Filling it completely full of pellets will yield about 3 hours of smoke, with pretty linear reductions in that time easily achievable by filling it only 1/3, 2/3, etc. But if that's not compact enough they offer a 6" model as well.



It depends on the exact make and model. The iGrill[SUP]2[/SUP] I just upgraded to...



...uses Bluetooth for the connection between it and an app on your mobile device (phone, tablet, whatever), with an advertised range of 150'. But that claim almost certainly refers to optimal line-of-sight conditions, so it probably wouldn't work for you even if they underestimated it. On the other hand, the other one I have (basically a Maverick ET-732 rebranded as the "Ivation" remote thermometer)...



...uses 433.92 MHz transceivers in both the sending and receiving unit (rather than using your phone as the remote receiver), giving it better range (a couple hundred feet at least), as well as being less susceptible to signal blockage by walls and such than the higher frequency used by Bluetooth (2.4 GHz). The Maverick/Ivation is also much less expensive, and works just fine. The only reason I call the iGrill[SUP]2[/SUP] an upgrade is because it can handle up to 4 probes (any combination of meat and/or ambient temp probes) simultaneously, compared with the Maverick's max of 2. I also like using my phone as the receiver station instead of the Maverick's dedicated one because it's one less thing I need to replace batteries in periodically.



If I had a nickle for every time I've said that...[/QUOTE]

Thanks, let us know how you like your upgrade.
33.) billy b - 12/28/2016
It does look good bluecat, you can freeze it but you really should vacuum seal it in medium portions and you can warm it up in the microwave. Good job.
34.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;46195]I was REALLY missing a wireless temp probe so I could sleep more between monitorings. It's about 60 yards to the "smoke shack" so I don't know if I would lose the signal if I had one.

I will say I will never do an all-nighter again. It's one thing to start it in the morning as you are doing projects around the area where you can pop in easily with the goal of eating the brisket that evening. It's quite another to set your watch's countdown timer to an hour and sleep with it on the nightstand.

[/QUOTE]


Rookie mistake. You're supposed to get some lawn chairs and sit out there by the cooker with two or three of your little buddies, as the ladies call them, along with a couple of bottles of the good stuff (or at least the affordable stuff). Alternately check the cooker, poke at the fire pit or burn barrel, tell lies, and doze under the stars. It helps if it's not 30 degrees out, but it can be done.

If you are cooking through sunrise, it is acceptable to suspend the "No alcohol before lunch" rule once the sun's up, as long as you don't advertise it on Facebook and as long as you ignore any suggestions from your friends to shoot some targets or blow something up to pass the time. Also, as long as you remember to not let the fire in the cooker go out.

On the other hand, if you start your fires AFTER sunrise, it's generally frowned upon to imbibe before sports programming has begun on either radio or television, whichever comes first. This applies whether you are cooking at home or in a remote camp without electricity. You use the time that sports usually comes on weekends where you live, and if you are traveling, the time zone you are in or your time zone at home, whichever is most beneficial to you.

Alternatively, it is acceptable to begin drinking as soon as your first guest fire-watcher arrives. Not all guests qualify to be fire-watchers, as you know, so don't try to cheat on this exception or you are liable to be called out as a lush by people who don't understand you and never will.

Or you can throw away the rule book and just drink discretely. (Thanks, Donald Trump!)

Whichever approach you take, you're sure to catch enough Zs using these methods to arrive at the table rested and relaxed, though I would advise not blowing out any birthday or holiday candles for 24 hours, at least not if anything or anyone valuable is sitting straight across from you.
35.) bluecat - 12/28/2016
You've got a lot of rules Tarheel. :wink
36.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
I just want to give a full explanation, 'cause otherwise some of you people are liable to go off the rails trying some of this stuff out...
37.) DParker - 12/28/2016
[QUOTE=bluecat;46206]You've got a lot of rules Tarheel. :wink[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think I'm going to need to have my attorney look all that over before I try it.
38.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
It's really more of a social appropriateness vs. stigma thing rather than a legal thing, but I understand the concern...

When you're a hunter/fisherman/outdoor cooking enthusiast, it's easy to make a faux pas in today's society...One of which is using the phrase "faux pas."


:wink
39.) bluecat - 12/28/2016
:wink
40.) Swamp Fox - 12/28/2016
LOL...+3