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1.) Jon - 11/28/2017
Good article here about CWD and humans

2.) DParker - 11/28/2017
Thanks for the link, Jon. That was....disconcerting. CWD has made its way into the TX panhandle, and it's only a matter of time before it gets to the areas I hunt. They're already screening for it here, and took the lymph nodes from my deer when I took it to the local check station.
3.) Swamp Fox - 11/28/2017
Great catch. It's just unfortunate that this might give some people the impression that selective "harvest" is a risk, when it's really that non-selective harvest seems to be biologists' go-to cure.

[QUOTE]The prior generation of deer hunters generally found shooting a very
young buck preferable to the taboo taking of a doe. Modern hunters tend to do the opposite. These days, “Let them go and let them grow” is the order of the day. It’s on billboards and magazines, Facebook pages and T-shirts.

Not everyone agrees this herd management system should be codified. In some places, the topic just might spark a brawl. Nonetheless, many counties are regulated with minimum antler-point restrictions, which are designed to get hunters to pass on younger deer and shoot does. Just this year, a slew of new counties added APRs in Michigan.

[B]Now, there’s a twist: the deer that so far have tested positive for chronic wasting disease in Michigan are younger on average. And if allowed to grow, they would be shedding this indestructible disease in their feces, saliva and urine for that much longer.[/B]

Where does this leave the "let them grow" strategy so many of us have supported?[/QUOTE]

Emphasis mine.

I'm no meteorologist, but I'd be willing to bet that the positive tests are younger on average because the deer coming in are younger on average because the Michigan deer herd is younger on average.

[Insert Kermit the Frog "But that's none of my business" tea-drinking meme here.]

Also, the fact that CWD kills fairly quickly (as far as I know) means infected deer won't be "shedding this indestructible disease ... that much longer."
4.) Jon - 11/28/2017
I'm no dermatologist, but I'd be willing to bet two discarded moles that Michigan will probably start some discussion with hunters and encourage them to take more young deer in the seasons to come, maybe a shoot 2 does before shooting a buck deal.
I don't think I've ever read the timeline pertaining to CWD death of deer nor can I remember reading any data that would allow them to figure out how long the animal was infected.
The Blue Tongue and EHD seems to kill very quickly
The following 3 bucks were found on one of our farms while the farmer was running the combine on corn. The 2 complete heads were dead sometime fairly early in the fall due to the fact that velvet hadn't come off at all or much based on the surface of the antler. The huge shed looking antler was shiny so it could have been fairly recent. He has the other side to that one, cut them off because the body was still attached and fairly stinky.
We believe this to be EHD

5.) Swamp Fox - 11/28/2017
Ack ... Those are a shame.

As best I can tell, CWD is always fatal and takes less than three years to kill a deer. So the point that EHD etc. are quicker killers is certainly correct. Probably also true that biologists can't backdate to the start of the infection. I think what we know about the incubation period and onset of symptoms has come from captive and/or intentionally infected animals.

This is an interesting tidbit to add to the article linked above:

[QUOTE]Research has revealed that CWD prevalence rates are highest in older bucks. For that reason, CWD containment plans often involve managing for a young deer age structure, the opposite of Quality Deer Management. Hunters are discouraged from attempting to build buck age structure by protecting yearling or middle-aged bucks – again, an unfortunate but prudent step in containing the disease.

In 2004, Missouri established an experimental 4-points-on-a-side antler restriction to protect yearling bucks in 29 northern counties. It was a success and was popular among hunters, so in 2008 the rule was expanded to 65 counties. When CWD was discovered in the middle of those 65 counties, the antler point regulation was repealed in the six-county DMZ.

Jason Sumners said the sex ratio of the deer harvest in the containment zone has shifted quickly back in favor of bucks, and pressure on yearling bucks is high once again.

Gary Bolhofner of Missouri, who hunts in the DMZ, said he hated to see the antler regulation repealed.

“The 4-point rule really helped,” he said. “We were really seeing a lot of good bucks before it was dropped.”



I can see why biologists go to a scorched earth, if-it's-brown-it's-down policy and throw age-structure management out the window, but I haven't seen anything yet that shows that this solves the actual problem. Seems to me to be killing a lot of young deer for no good reason.

Here's a good article on what we do and don't know about CWD and what to do about it:

6.) Jon - 11/28/2017
Strange that they say one thing in the first paragraph and then contradict their selves in the second paragraph. You debone the animal and leave the carcass which means a potentially poisoned deer is now laying there for anything to eat and further spread the disease.

“According to disease scientists, the best method to limit CWD’s spread is to stop transporting the causative agents,” he says. “This means we hunters need to debone meat from deer and elk harvested in areas where CWD has been found, and only transport the meat, pelt, and antlers. Do not transport[B] the brain [/B]and major parts of the nervous system, [B]which is where most prions occur.[/B]”

“We also need to stop transporting live deer and elk because there is no practical test that can accurately confirm if they have CWD. Deer or elk with CWD [B]shed the causative agent in their saliva, feces, urine, etc[/B]., and transporting them could spread CWD to areas with herds that are currently CWD-free.”
7.) Swamp Fox - 11/28/2017
Good point.

I've heard all the deboning and brain stuff before, but I guess they figure that if you leave the waste in a CWD area, it was already a CWD area and you're not making it worse. Although of course it's hard to see how you're not. You certainly aren't making it any better.

If we had any Wisco boys on here anymore, I'd love to hear how they think CWD was handled after some time has gone by now.

Also, even though this is a much younger story, I'd love to hear from Virginia about their ban on deer scents, which is possibly the biggest knee jerk with nothing to back it up that I've ever come across in hunting.
8.) Swamp Fox - 11/28/2017
[QUOTE]“Prions are shed in the saliva, urine, and feces just months after a deer becomes infected," says Dr. Krysten L. Schuler, a wildlife disease ecologist at Cornell University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. "[B]That deer will still look perfectly healthy and it can live for more than a year after it’s infected[/B]. That deer’s infected urine may be gathered at any time. The trouble with these prions is they bind to soil particles and can be taken up into plants. This allows prions to contaminate the environment for years after they are poured out of a bottle. There is no safe dose of prions.”

She urges hunters, “not to risk contaminating your favorite hunting spot with a product that has the potential to introduce a disease into your deer herd. [B]When it comes to CWD, prevention is the only proven strategy.”
Unfortunately there is no viable way to test for prions in deer urine attractants, and we don’t know how long they can live in a bottle—or even if they can live in a bottle at all. I could find no documentation or research proving or disproving this.

That's genius: "Prevention is the only proven strategy."

Here, let me try: "[I]Elimination is the only cure."[/I]

How bow da?

More info, both pro-pee and anti-pee, here:

9.) bluecat - 11/29/2017
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;53398]

Here, let me try: "[I]Elimination is the only cure."[/I]


It's the only way to be sure...