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1.) Floyd - 01/08/2014
I'm excited. A lot of new products coming out in the new year. Post what you have found, seen, heard about. Discuss what you like, dislike and the like.



Me first: A FLIR for your phone. IPhone 5 first then others later. [URL="http://flir.com/flirone/press/assets/Discover/FLIR%20ONE_Fast%20Facts+Tech%20Specs_FINAL.pdf"]http://flir.com/flirone/press/assets/Discover/FLIR%20ONE_Fast%20Facts+Tech%20Specs_FINAL.pdf[/URL]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]352[/ATTACH]
2.) DParker - 01/08/2014
Those are really slick...even if they won't have an Android-compatible model until later this year. The only problems I see with them (not having even seen one in person yet, let alone had the opportunity to play with one) are the minimum operating temperature of 32 F (which will somewhat limit it's use during deer hunting season) and the fact that it would render my Otterbox protective case useless.
3.) Floyd - 01/08/2014
Slap a hand warmer on it.

Oops, that was funny. If the hand warmer would do the trick, that is.

I'm sure the preceding models will. One has to get the first one out to help pay for R&D and other stuff.
4.) crookedeye - 01/08/2014
[url]http://www.ammoland.com/2014/01/g5-havoc-expandable-broadhead/#axzz2pqvAsY5x[/url]
5.) Floyd - 01/08/2014
Rick, thanks for your contribution. You taking the G5 Havoc Elk Hunting?
6.) Swamp Fox - 01/09/2014
Badlands has revamped several of their packs and added some new ones.

Zeiss Conquest HD binoculars seem to be (basically) an old Victory premium series at a steep discount.

I am scheming how I can make a trip to some Cabelas or another to put my paws on a fair sampling of both.

I'm still waiting for a slider sight with one or two fixed pins...If someone's come out with one, or anything even close, I haven't noticed. Haven't seen where the hybrid sights that [I]are[/I] out are what I'm looking for, but I'm going to take a second look, since it's been a while.

G5 needs to bring back the black Tekans.

I'd like a Firenock that doesn't rattle in Blue Streaks. Otherwise, if I continue to use them, they'll be riding ICS Hunters..
7.) BULLZ-i - 01/09/2014
PLENTY OF STUFF, JUST DEPENDS ON YOUR LIKES, WANTS AND NEEDS.

2014 ATA
[url]http://www.bowhunting.com/[/url]
8.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
Oh, c'mon! You can do better than that, BZ!

:poke:


:tap:
9.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
We need a "Phonin' It In" emoticon....


:wink
10.) NEBigAl - 01/10/2014
How does that FLIR work?
11.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
Beer concentrate...


[url]http://www.patsbcb.com/pats-story[/url]


I mean, really, you can't have Tang all the time...:wink LOL
12.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
I'd like to see a firefight....um, a [I]shootout[/I]...among all the new and newish lighted nocks...:pop:


You know: Compare and Contrast.
13.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
By the way, it's been three hours since I posted about concentrated beer you could carry in your pack, and no replies.

What more could you ask for???

Have I told you people lately how bad y'all suck?

Have I?



:wink

:wink:tap::wink
14.) crookedeye - 01/10/2014
finally!!!!
15.) Swamp Fox - 01/10/2014
I know, right?!

:grin:
16.) bluecat - 01/10/2014
Well judging by all the beer cans I see when I'm hiking I don't think they are solving a problem that really existed. People seem to be able to transport their beer just fine.
17.) Ar-mink - 01/10/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;14466]I'm excited. A lot of new products coming out in the new year. Post what you have found, seen, heard about. Discuss what you like, dislike and the like.



Me first: A FLIR for your phone. IPhone 5 first then others later. [URL="http://flir.com/flirone/press/assets/Discover/FLIR%20ONE_Fast%20Facts+Tech%20Specs_FINAL.pdf"]http://flir.com/flirone/press/assets/Discover/FLIR%20ONE_Fast%20Facts+Tech%20Specs_FINAL.pdf[/URL]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]352[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

This interests me as a volunteer firefighter. I wonder if I can talk my Chief into getting us one?
18.) crookedeye - 01/11/2014
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-5008C700-Camping-Coffee-Maker/dp/B001K7IDVU/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t/190-4307451-8274850[/url]

I don't think this thing is new, but I like it
19.) Bob Peck - 01/11/2014
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4][B]Thermacell Heated Insoles[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]353[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]354[/ATTACH]

At $95 they sure aren't in the affordable (read cheap) category but they are a true innovation and yes, they work great!

Pros:
-Thermostat controlled. Once they reach the temp (Med or High) they temporarily shut off saving battery life and maintaining the temp
-Wireless operation to turn on/off and set temps
-Lithium Ion battery that's rechargeable 500 times
-The high setting is way too much but then again when ice fishing it might not be enough. With rare exception (i.e. double digit sub-zero temps) you do not want this product on while you're walking. Period.
-They easily transfer from one set of boots to the other

Cons:
-Only 5 hrs of battery life but that's only if you're completely stationary and if you don't ration the battery
-One size fits all. You have to cut down the cushion to get it to fit in your boots
-Mesh that covers electronics is only water resistant. If you soak this product (i.e. leaky boots) it's cooked, done, kaput
-After several uses the foam compresses and you can faintly make out the feel of the lithium battery embedded in the heel. Not bad, not painful just there
20.) crookedeye - 01/12/2014
I wonder what kind of new turkey stuff they'll have this year...calls, decoys?.

You didn't hear this from me... but I heard there coming out with a "new" double headed funky chicken decoy.

.i didn't what to get this out to the public until I was given the ok by my sponsers...I couldn't wait though..
21.) crookedeye - 01/12/2014
I would have like to been a fly on the wall when they invented that thing...
22.) NEBigAl - 01/13/2014
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;14520][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4][B]Thermacell Heated Insoles[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]353[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]354[/ATTACH]

At $95 they sure aren't in the affordable (read cheap) category but they are a true innovation and yes, they work great!

Pros:
-Thermostat controlled. Once they reach the temp (Med or High) they temporarily shut off saving battery life and maintaining the temp
-Wireless operation to turn on/off and set temps
-Lithium Ion battery that's rechargeable 500 times
-The high setting is way too much but then again when ice fishing it might not be enough. With rare exception (i.e. double digit sub-zero temps) you do not want this product on while you're walking. Period.
-They easily transfer from one set of boots to the other

Cons:
-Only 5 hrs of battery life but that's only if you're completely stationary and if you don't ration the battery
-One size fits all. You have to cut down the cushion to get it to fit in your boots
-Mesh that covers electronics is only water resistant. If you soak this product (i.e. leaky boots) it's cooked, done, kaput
-After several uses the foam compresses and you can faintly make out the feel of the lithium battery embedded in the heel. Not bad, not painful just there[/QUOTE]


Those look great! I dont think 95$ is bad at all, most good pairs of gloves or merino socks are 20$+. Having warm feet would be worth it for those long sits
23.) bluecat - 01/13/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;14523]I wonder what kind of new turkey stuff they'll have this year...calls, decoys?.

You didn't hear this from me... but I heard there coming out with a "new" double headed funky chicken decoy.

.i didn't what to get this out to the public until I was given the ok by my sponsers...I couldn't wait though..[/QUOTE]

:laugh:
24.) Bob Peck - 01/13/2014
[QUOTE=NEBigAl;14534]Having warm feet would be worth it for those long sits[/QUOTE] Indeed! At -16F for 8 hrs I'm almost positive I couldn't have made it without this product. Then again if I had my Herman Munster pack boots or Arctic Shield booties on? Both are clumsy and dangerous in a treestand but oh wait ... maybe it's just me that's clumsy and dangerous in the treestand.
25.) bluecat - 01/13/2014
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;14546]maybe it's just me that's clumsy and dangerous in the treestand.[/QUOTE]

That award would go to Luv2.
26.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
I resemble that remark, but it qualifies as hijack.

....so back to the new and very innovative products sportsmen can't wait to spend their hard earned money on.
27.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
I prolly shouldn't say anything since if you like this idea y'all will prolly cause a run on these and drive the supply down and the price up (Take note, President Obama: complicated economics talk goin' on up in here), but Dick's has these at a steep discount right now. I snatched up a few before Christmas, but there are still a couple of boxes left at my "local" store. Don't pay any more than $60 for [B]*four*[/B] sticks. A lot of places want to sell 3 for $79 :shocked:.

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Muddy-77403-Outfitter-Sticks-Pack/dp/B00BB9SJ6Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389707078&sr=8-4&keywords=muddy+climbing+sticks[/url]


Considering I'd pay $60 for three Stagger Steps these days (up around 20% more than three or four years ago) and my other favorite stick from Lone Wolf has gotten flat-out outrageous since they brought production back to the good ol' USA, I thought these were a steal. Yeah, the price of materials has gone up, but that doesn't mean we have to take it in the hiney.
28.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
I will say, the ladder sections are much safer than treesteps. 'Nuff said on that. I'm meeting the surgeon today for a post op check up at 10:00AM, he'll vouche for me.

I'm still looking for the perfect hang-on treestand. Here are the requirements;

Light, less than 12 lbs.
Easy to hang, preferably with a bracket that attaches to tree first
Comfortable. Not a small little seat that hurts after 1 hour
Decent size platform that lets you stand close to tree with seat flipped up
Blends in with woods, doesn't stick out like a sore thumb

I've looked and looked and am thinking the Millenium fits most of these, but the ones I've seen in use stick out like a sore thumb, and it weighs 14 lbs.. Not good on public land. The Lone Wolf Assault is nice, but the seat is not comfy to me. My Chippewa is nice and light, but again the seat is only good for an hour or two. Muddy Outdoors has a nice hanging system, but on the light one the platform is tiny.

Still looking, if anyone has found the holy grail let me know.
29.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
BTW I use thick neoprene gloves for cold-weather wet chores including beaver patrol, paddling and fishing. Choose the split-finger models if you need fine dexterity such as for fishing line, picking up small objects or working any kind of a trigger (certainly a trigger on an archery release), and rinse the gloves regularly if you need scent control. Nothing stinks worse than well-used, uncleaned neoprene....Well, almost nothing. :wink


Also, get the right-sized glove. A too-small fit will cut down on dexterity significantly.
30.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14560]I will say, the ladder sections are much safer than treesteps. 'Nuff said on that. I'm meeting the surgeon today for a post op check up at 10:00AM, he'll vouche for me.

I'm still looking for the perfect hang-on treestand. Here are the requirements;

Light, less than 12 lbs.
Easy to hang, preferably with a bracket that attaches to tree first
Comfortable. Not a small little seat that hurts after 1 hour
Decent size platform that lets you stand close to tree with seat flipped up
Blends in with woods, doesn't stick out like a sore thumb

I've looked and looked and am thinking the Millenium fits most of these, but the ones I've seen in use stick out like a sore thumb, and it weighs 14 lbs.. Not good on public land. The Lone Wolf Assault is nice, but the seat is not comfy to me. My Chippewa is nice and light, but again the seat is only good for an hour or two. Muddy Outdoors has a nice hanging system, but on the light one the platform is tiny.

Still looking, if anyone has found the holy grail let me know.[/QUOTE]


Look for the [B]older[/B] LW Assault model. It meets some/most of your requirements, depending on how strict you are. If I can dig up the specs I'll post them. It's lighter than what they have offered in the last few years. Again, another recent Lone Wolf "disimprovement." :wink

The [B]old[/B] Lone Wolf Alpha might fit the weight requirement as well (barely), plus offer a bigger seat and platform.

Consider buying a Muddy seat for that Chippewa. Just sayin'. (Been there...)
31.) crookedeye - 01/14/2014
[url]http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lone-Wolf-Hunt-Comfort-Seat-Pad/1413227.uts[/url]
its only an extra 60 bucks...that makes it about a 600 dollar stand, my first car was cheaper.. there nice though.
32.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps, but they usually make for an easier climb, especially for people who don't climb up in trees a lot.

You have to figure a way not to be stepping and grabbing at the same time on the same section with no third support to make them "safer" than screw-ins, to my mind. If that one section lets go for some reason, see ya at the bottom. With screw-ins, you have (or should have) a no-brainer three-point hold on three different supports at all times. That's[B] before[/B] you even mention things like lineman's belts, safety lines, etc.
33.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;14563][url]http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lone-Wolf-Hunt-Comfort-Seat-Pad/1413227.uts[/url]
its only an extra 60 bucks...that makes it about a 600 dollar stand, my first car was cheaper.. there nice though.[/QUOTE]

[I]
Lone Wolf Hunt Comfort Seat Pad[/I]

[I]Put an end to fatigue and discomfort in the treestand with this soft, supportive seat pad. Two 1" layers of patented SuperLight Gel, along with one layer of foam, keep you going from sunup to sundown. The rugged waterproof comforTEX shell stands up to the elements. Designed to work with Lone Wolf’s Alpha Hang-On and Assault Hang-On treestands. Made in USA[/I]



Oooh, gel! :grin::wink

Haven't used the LW $60 cushion, but have used the Muddys for a lot less money. Just bought a bunch of them as replacements for cheap pads that have worn out. Won't say how much I paid for them or where for complicated economic and simple selfish reasons, but they were also a steal... :wink
34.) crookedeye - 01/14/2014


here's another innovation.

muddys are made in china though..not that theres nothing wrong with that..
35.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
LOL....

You don't think the Chinese can make a decent cushion? I believe they [I]invented[/I] cushions, as a matter of fact...LOL



Let me find something I thought of the other day for you.
36.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
CE, here you go:

Save some money...Plus you can put it on coals OR break out the stove. You can find small one-man percolators a bit cheaper. I like the two handles on this one:

[url]http://www.coleman.com/product/9-cup-aluminum-coffee-percolator/2000008088?contextCategory=5180#.UtHb9s-A3IU[/url]


These are good tips that I wish I'd known from the get-go instead of figuring out the hard way:

[url]http://www.best-coffee-machines.com/how-to-choose-the-best-coffee-percolator/how-to-make-good-coffee-with-a-percolator[/url]
37.) bluecat - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14564]Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps, but they usually make for an easier climb, especially for people who don't climb up in trees a lot.

[/QUOTE]

If you fall with a screw-in step below you, heaven help you because if you catch some skin on one of those hooks, it ain't going to pretty.
38.) crookedeye - 01/14/2014
the first one is the exact one I have where all the grounds go threw the holes where you put the coffe..a filter solves that problem though.

coleman also makes one that takes a regular propane canister ..around 90 bucks.
39.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;14569]If you fall with a screw-in step below you, heaven help you because if you catch some skin on one of those hooks, it ain't going to pretty.[/QUOTE]


No argument there. Thus the three-point hold requirement.

Almost the same thing is possible with any stick or sectioned ladder system with exposed steps, though. Stagger Steps (for instance) avoid the problem by enclosing the steps in the vertical frame. The same goes for a lot of full ladders with full vertical rails.

I believe the trend for "today's hunter" is probably away from screw-in steps, though, but I don't think it's primarily for safety reasons. It's for the same reason that 23-pound climbers and 16-pound hang-ons are advertised as "lightweight" these days. :re: And for the reasons that go to -- even if they weren't advertised that way today--- the fact that you have trouble finding stands that were the light ones years ago, as evidenced by Luv2's post.

Just about everything is lightweight when you roll up to it with your ATV or camo golfcart for the 100-yard death march to your one stand, LOL.
40.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
CE, did you ever get a JetBoil, or something like it?
41.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14560]I will say, the ladder sections are much safer than treesteps. 'Nuff said on that. I'm meeting the surgeon today for a post op check up at 10:00AM, he'll vouche for me.

I'm still looking for the perfect hang-on treestand. Here are the requirements;

Light, less than 12 lbs.
Easy to hang, preferably with a bracket that attaches to tree first
Comfortable. Not a small little seat that hurts after 1 hour
Decent size platform that lets you stand close to tree with seat flipped up
Blends in with woods, doesn't stick out like a sore thumb

I've looked and looked and am thinking the Millenium fits most of these, but the ones I've seen in use stick out like a sore thumb, and it weighs 14 lbs.. Not good on public land. The Lone Wolf Assault is nice, but the seat is not comfy to me. My Chippewa is nice and light, but again the seat is only good for an hour or two. Muddy Outdoors has a nice hanging system, but on the light one the platform is tiny.

Still looking, if anyone has found the holy grail let me know.[/QUOTE]

I believe this stand exists now as of 2014. It has adjustable platform and seat. Completely camo and has bracket for the tree. Made to blend into the surroundings with the camo dip finish.

Check that- Stand weighs 18lbs. Doesnt fit your weight requirement.
Advanced Treestand Technologies
42.) crookedeye - 01/14/2014
one of these days i'm going to get the jetboil flash..
43.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14571]It's for the same reason that 23-pound climbers and 16-pound hang-ons are advertised as "lightweight" these days. :re: And for the reasons that go to -- even if they weren't advertised that way today--- the fact that you have trouble finding stands that were the light ones years ago, as evidenced by Luv2's post. Just about everything is lightweight when you roll up to it with your ATV or camo golfcart for the 100-yard death march to your one stand, LOL.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. I guess the market for guys who want something truly lightweight so they can climb mountains or go back in a mile or two isn't what it used to be. 16 lbs carried over a 1/4 mile is heavy to me. Way too heavy for packing in and hunting the same day.
44.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;14575]I believe this stand exists now as of 2014. It has adjustable platform and seat. Completely camo and has bracket for the tree. Made to blend into the surroundings with the camo dip finish.

Check that- Stand weighs 18lbs. Doesnt fit your weight requirement.
Advanced Treestand Technologies[/QUOTE]

But weight is THE number one requirement for me. I'm willing to give a little on some of the others, especially platform size.

I only wear 8 1/2's.:wink
45.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
The Drury Outdoors team will join forces with Under Armour in a multi-faceted marketing program designed to educate hunters about the brand's innovative performance apparel, footwear and accessories including Under Armour's revolutionary UA Scent Control technology and the new Mossy Oak Treestand Camo pattern[B]Exclusive to Under Armour.[/B]
46.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14580]But weight is THE number one requirement for me. I'm willing to give a little on some of the others, especially platform size.

I only wear 8 1/2's.:wink[/QUOTE]

Yah, i agree, i thought it was lighter.
47.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
The Drury's are cowards. Been well documented by me on all of Alex's hunting/archery website adventures.:co:
48.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;14576]one of these days i'm going to get the jetboil flash..[/QUOTE]



That's a nice stove.

I've been wanting to get one of these for a while:

[url]http://www.solostove.com/backpacking-stoves/[/url]


Really, I want to do some cooking on an Indian fire hole, but there's always some problem with the ones I've started...roots, rocks, cave-ins from the type of soil, lack of a good place for one, etc. They're pretty easy, but not as easy as this makes them sound:

[url]http://wildernessinnovation.com/2010/06/22/the-dakota-hole-fire-easy-stealthy-efficient/[/url]
49.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14585]The Drury's are cowards. Been well documented by me on all of Alex's hunting/archery website adventures.:co:[/QUOTE]


LOL...:grin:
50.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
I'm probably gonna try some of these out this spring. I hate buying ice, and frozen water jugs don't completely cut it for more than a few hours once the warm weather gets here:

[url]http://www.arctic-ice.com/arctic_ice_about_arctic_ice.html[/url]


Really, what the world needs is more 10-cents-a-pound 24-hour ice vending machines.
51.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14585]The Drury's are cowards. Been well documented by me on all of Alex's hunting/archery website adventures.:co:[/QUOTE]

HAHA! Knew you would like that.

Im glad to see UA getting the Treestand pattern back in action. I could care less about the Drurys. :wink
52.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
I have some UnderArmour stuff in MOTS from a few years ago (two jackets, I think) and it's a little darker/has a little more olive drab theme to it than some of my other MOTS stuff from, say, Russell and Browning. I'd like to see if UA could find a way around that this time around. I much prefer the lighter, more open samples of MOTS.


Speaking of good stuff, I wish Russell were still making some of the stuff they used to. Their Tundra pullover was the bomb! I missed my chance to hoard some of those.
53.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
I bought some close out MOTS pants from Russell through Sportsmansguide. They are heavyweight fleece, very nice. I luv them late season.

Should of bought two pair. Why don't I do that with stuff I know I'm going to luv?
54.) bluecat - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14596]I have some UnderArmour stuff in MOTS from a few years ago (two jackets, I think) and it's a little darker/has a little more olive drab theme to it than some of my other MOTS stuff from, say, Russell and Browning. I'd like to see if UA could find a way around that this time around. I much prefer the lighter, more open samples of MOTS.


Speaking of good stuff, I wish Russell were still making some of the stuff they used to. Their Tundra pullover was the bomb! I missed my chance to hoard some of those.[/QUOTE]

Swampy, do you ever watch Hoarders? I love that show so much I've saved all the episodes.
55.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
LOL...


I learned long ago that if I really like something, they'll stop making it.

Latest examples: Gorilla King Kong HX treestands and 28-year-old girls who will give me their phone numbers...
56.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
Im still wearing out my scentlok timber fleece from 4 years ago in MOTS pattern. It has a lighter open pattern. I agree with swampster, i like the lighter open look better. There is a pic of the drurys on MO website wearing the new UA gear. Its not for sale yet tho. Im sure it will be by the fall, since it was just announced. Not sure who is going to carry the Overwatch pattern. It was released as a tactical pattern for LEOs and SWAT. Only one company will carry it this year, and they havent said who as of yet. Maybe jon knows.
57.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14602]LOL...


I learned long ago that if I really like something, they'll stop making it.

Latest examples: Gorilla King Kong HX treestands and 28-year-old girls who will give me their phone numbers...[/QUOTE]

pervert. lol

as for the stands, it looks like a new company , Hawke, is making the gorilla stands . Pattern is similiar and the seats look the same. website isnt up and running yet tho i dont think.
58.) luv2bowhunt - 01/14/2014
No reason to stick Jon in there, unless you want him or someone like me to comment.

Just sayin'. What the world needs now, is luv, sweet luv.
59.) Ventilator - 01/14/2014
Not out of the question. He has a shop and seems to know about new products. just sayin
60.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;14604]pervert. lol

as for the stands, it looks like a new company , Hawke, is making the gorilla stands . Pattern is similiar and the seats look the same. website isnt up and running yet tho i dont think.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that heads-up. The seat might be even better since it has at least some memory-foam, and the bite of the stand into the tree might be improved, from what I've been able to "find out." (All second- and third-hand at this point, though.) I've only had one or two sets with my Gorillas that weren't perfect, and as many as I have put in various trees, that's saying something. But it sounds like Hawke may have found some room for improvement there.

Platform size at 24x30 for the Hawke XL is the same as the King Kong HX, which is great for me since I have really started to dislike anything smaller, at least for bowhunting. As long as the platform isn't mushy with those wide mesh links the Hawke uses in their grate, and as long as the seat height's no shorter than 21 inches, I'll take a look. I'd like a steel version coming in at $80-90 each, please. :grin:
61.) Swamp Fox - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14590]
Really, what the world needs is more 10-cents-a-pound 24-hour ice vending machines.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14605]

What the world needs now, is luv, sweet luv.[/QUOTE]


No...After giving this a lot of thought, I'm gonna say that what the world [B]really [/B]needs is some/more/any of those 28-year-old girls who will give me their phone numbers....


That's my story, and I'm sticking to it....:-)
62.) DParker - 01/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14586]Really, I want to do some cooking on an Indian fire hole, but there's always some problem with the ones I've started...roots, rocks, cave-ins from the type of soil, lack of a good place for one, etc. They're pretty easy, but not as easy as this makes them sound:[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair to you...it's really hard to light an Indian.
63.) NEBigAl - 01/15/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14586]That's a nice stove.

I've been wanting to get one of these for a while:

[url]http://www.solostove.com/backpacking-stoves/[/url]


Really, I want to do some cooking on an Indian fire hole, but there's always some problem with the ones I've started...roots, rocks, cave-ins from the type of soil, lack of a good place for one, etc. They're pretty easy, but not as easy as this makes them sound:

[url]http://wildernessinnovation.com/2010/06/22/the-dakota-hole-fire-easy-stealthy-efficient/[/url][/QUOTE]

Make an alcohol stove with a beer can!
64.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
Sounds like a waste of good alcohol, LOL...
65.) Wild Bob - 01/15/2014
My new product to use this year, related to the last couple of posts: A Red Solo Cup.
66.) Ventilator - 01/15/2014


Pic of new UA reaper garment in MOTS pattern.
67.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
Who's the genius that insists on putting big solid panels on camo clothes these days? Especially dark solid panels on your torso and arms? Drives me freakin' nuts!

Then again, I rarely move my arms when bowhunting...LOL

I hope that suit is lighter and more open in person than it looks in a photo. Probably isn't helping to put it against dark backgrounds.

Mossy Oak really has to fight the urge to darken things and clutter them up. :bang:
68.) Ventilator - 01/15/2014
i know, depends alot on who makes the garment. Someone should scream LIGHTER LIGHTER LIGHTER!!
69.) bluecat - 01/15/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14679]Who's the genius that insists on putting big solid panels on camo clothes these days? Especially dark solid panels on your torso and arms? Drives me freakin' nuts!

Then again, I rarely move my arms when bowhunting...LOL

I hope that suit is lighter and more open in person than it looks in a photo. Probably isn't helping to put it against dark backgrounds.

Mossy Oak really has to fight the urge to darken things and clutter them up. :bang:[/QUOTE]

Well they also insist on putting a flash of fluorescent color somewhere on their product? Why would I want a day-glow orange logo on my beanie?
70.) Wild Bob - 01/15/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14679]Who's the genius that insists on putting big solid panels on camo clothes these days? Especially dark solid panels on your torso and arms? Drives me freakin' nuts!

Then again, I rarely move my arms when bowhunting...LOL

I hope that suit is lighter and more open in person than it looks in a photo. Probably isn't helping to put it against dark backgrounds.

Mossy Oak really has to fight the urge to darken things and clutter them up. :bang:[/QUOTE]

- I agree the dark solids aren't where it's at. But then again, I think that many of the companies are shooting for style...I wish they'd just stick to functionality!
71.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
Agreed that the vendor in charge of printing the fabric has a lot to do with it, and can vary from lot to lot.

Sometimes, though, I think MO has somebody on staff with a lot of pull who likes to tell stories about how many deer and turkeys he's killed wearing blue denim bib overalls while smoking a cigarette...

He just shames the "light-and-open" crowd into silence with his crusty attitude and over-all bubba-ness...

:wink
72.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
And don't ask me what the deer and turkeys are doing wearing overalls and smoking in the first place...:wink
73.) DParker - 01/15/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14696]And don't ask me what the deer and turkeys are doing wearing overalls and smoking in the first place...:wink[/QUOTE]

Have you ever shot an elephant in your pajamas?
74.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
No, but I've found some footprints in my butter...


:wink
75.) Wild Bob - 01/15/2014
That just sounds wrong... :-)
76.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
Surely you remember the old elephant jokes...

Shirley....hehehe...
77.) Wild Bob - 01/15/2014
I meant the footprints in your butter...LOL
78.) Swamp Fox - 01/15/2014
That's one of the classics! You need to get in touch with your inner third-grader!

Q: "How do you know if there's an elephant in your refrigerator?"

A: "Footprints in the butter!"


:grin:
79.) bluecat - 01/16/2014
Let's eat grandma.

Let's eat, grandma.
80.) Ventilator - 01/16/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;14693]- I agree the dark solids aren't where it's at. But then again, I think that many of the companies are shooting for style...I wish they'd just stick to functionality![/QUOTE]

Rule #1


Always Look Cool! :-)

:tu:
81.) DParker - 01/16/2014
Wrong. Rule #1 = "You don't talk about Fight Club."
82.) Floyd - 01/16/2014
Interesting stuff cohttp://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/chris-dumm/shoot-semi-auto-338-lapua-shot-show-stupid-question/ing out of the Shot Show.

Semi-auto 338 Lapua:
83.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[URL="http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/15/colt-sword-bringing-guns-android-phones-drones/"]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/15/colt-sword-bringing-guns-android-phones-drones/[/URL]

Hunting with drones?
84.) luv2bowhunt - 01/17/2014
I could've used the drone this year.
85.) Bob Peck - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14564]Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps, but they usually make for an easier climb, especially for people who don't climb up in trees a lot. [/QUOTE]

When your boots slip off the end of a screw in step (like that ever happens) you can look forward to the potential of a large gash in your pants, boot and possibly your leg. By contrast a boot slipping off a ladder step means at worse your face being mashed into a ladder rung. Couldn't disagree with you more from a safety standpoint. Are climbing steps more versatile? All day. Safer? Nope.
86.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Please note that I never said they were safer. :wink
87.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Speaking of screw-in steps, I'm going to try the hand drill and the bit shown here this year (scroll down) and we'll see if it does better than my little T-handled auger and/or the cordless drill with conventional wood bit for installing steps. If it's a vast improvement, I'll report back. I think the drill bit itself is going to be a hit.


[url]http://ezkutproducts.com/products.php[/url]
88.) Bob Peck - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14781]Please note that I never said they were safer. :wink[/QUOTE]

Any reasonable person reading

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14781]Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps[/QUOTE] could draw the conclusion that you are ambivalent about sticks and ladder sections compared to screw-in steps. Put another way, whether your selection and arrangements of words intended this, you are indicating sticks and ladder sections are less safe than screw-in steps and therefore safer.

Screw-in steps are generally prohibited on public land in most states, damage trees, old school, dangerous and usually not removed once installed causing trees to grow around them reducing the foot grab surface. In essence, they are accidents waiting to happen. :wink
89.) Ventilator - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14751]Wrong. Rule #1 = "You don't talk about Fight Club."[/QUOTE]

LOL

Original Rule #1 - US Special Forces (before fight club)

1. ALWAYS LOOK COOL

:tu:
90.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;14786]Any reasonable person reading "Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps"

could draw the conclusion that you are ambivalent about sticks and ladder sections compared to screw-in steps. Put another way, whether your selection and arrangements of words intended this, you are indicating sticks and ladder sections are less safe than screw-in steps and therefore safer.

[/QUOTE]

Bob, with all due respect, any person reading what I wrote and concluding I am ambivalent about sticks and ladders compared to screw-in steps would need a remedial course in reading comprehension. My statement is plain on its face. You don't need to "read into it." Ladders and sticks have their own risks. Just because one set of risks is different from another does not make that set of risks "safer."

Furthermore, if someone thinks that what I wrote means that I am indicating that sticks and ladders are "LESS safe than screw-in steps and therefore safer" [sic], they need to have their head examined.

:wink
91.) Jon - 01/17/2014
US Special Forces are cool, people pretending to be US Special Forces are just pretenders.
92.) Ventilator - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;14791]US Special Forces are cool, people pretending to be US Special Forces are just pretenders.[/QUOTE]


Assuming you are taking another unqualified jab at me again.

Until you know the facts, GFY!!

I agree, pretenders are just pretenders.
93.) Jon - 01/17/2014
Are you assuming it's a jab or are you assuming it's unqualified?
94.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
:laugh:
95.) DParker - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14789]Bob, with all due respect, any person reading what I wrote and concluding I am ambivalent about sticks and ladders compared to screw-in steps would need a remedial course in reading comprehension. My statement is plain on its face. You don't need to "read into it." Ladders and sticks have their own risks. Just because one set of risks is different from another does not make that set of risks "safer."

Furthermore, if someone thinks that what I wrote means that I am indicating that sticks and ladders are "LESS safe than screw-in steps and therefore safer" [sic], they need to have their head examined.

:wink[/QUOTE]

True. To be more nerdy about it, Bob's argument is a [I]modus ponens[/I] (probably the most common type of propositional logic) that is valid in form, but which yields an obviously false conclusion. It is essentially equivalent to the following:

[INDENT][B]Premise #1:[/B] "If A is not > B then B > A."

[B]Premise #2:[/B] "A is not > B."

[B]Conclusion:[/B] "Therefore B > A."[/INDENT]

The form of the argument is valid because the conclusion logically follows from the two premises. But the conclusion is a false one because its truth depends on the truth of both Premise #1 [I]and[/I] Premise #2, and Premise #1 is clearly false. The argument would be both valid [I]and[/I] true were it constructed thusly:

[INDENT][B]Premise #1:[/B] "If A is not > B then [I]either[/I] A = B [I]or[/I] B > A."

[B]Premise #2:[/B] "A is not > B."

[B]Conclusion:[/B] "Therefore [I]either[/I] A = B [I]or[/I] B > A."[/INDENT]

Similarly, the argument that the conclusion "Screw-in steps are safer than sticks or ladder sections" follows from these two premises...

[INDENT][B]#1:[/B] "If sticks and ladder sections are not safer than screw-in steps then screw-in steps are safer than sticks and ladder sections."

[B]#2:[/B] "Sticks and ladder sections are not safer than screw-in steps."[/INDENT]

...is a valid form of [I]modus ponens[/I]. But the conclusion is nonetheless false because it relies on the truth of both premises, and clearly Premise #1 is false.

But I'd also add in the notion of context, which is usually critical when it comes to interpreting natural language. Given that you were responding to the following statement...

[quote]I will say, the ladder sections are much safer than treesteps.[/quote]

...the only thing that can be fairly concluded from the following response (without making unwarranted assumptions or reading into the text things that are not there)...

[quote]Not sure I'd agree that sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps[/quote]

...is that the responder doubts that "sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps", and believes that [I]either[/I] "sticks or ladder sections are equally as safe as screw-in steps" [I]or[/I] "screw-in steps are safer than sicks or ladder sections".
96.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
In defense of Swampy, I am scared to go back on his property (understandably). Don't get me wrong, I'll go back. I mean, what could go wrong?



I'm thinking..... what we do is inherently ________. (insert what ever word or phrase you want. (dangerous, risky...etc))
97.) bluecat - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14797]True. To be more nerdy about it, Bob's argument is a [I]modus ponens[/I] (probably the most common type of propositional logic) that is valid in form, but which yields an obviously false conclusion. It is essentially equivalent to the following:

[INDENT][B]Premise #1:[/B] "If A is not > B then B > A."

[B]Premise #2:[/B] "A is not > B."

[B]Conclusion:[/B] "Therefore B > A."[/INDENT]

The form of the argument is valid because the conclusion logically follows from the two premises. But the conclusion is a false one because its truth depends on the truth of both Premise #1 [I]and[/I] Premise #2, and Premise #1 is clearly false. The argument would be both valid [I]and[/I] true were it constructed thusly:

[INDENT][B]Premise #1:[/B] "If A is not > B then [I]either[/I] A = B [I]or[/I] B > A."

[B]Premise #2:[/B] "A is not > B."

[B]Conclusion:[/B] "Therefore [I]either[/I] A = B [I]or[/I] B > A."[/INDENT]

Similarly, the argument that the conclusion "Screw-in steps are safer than sticks or ladder sections" follows from these two premises...

[INDENT][B]#1:[/B] "If sticks and ladder sections are not safer than screw-in steps then screw-in steps are safer than sticks and ladder sections."

[B]#2:[/B] "Sticks and ladder sections are not safer than screw-in steps."[/INDENT]

...is a valid form of [I]modus ponens[/I]. But the conclusion is nonetheless false because it relies on the truth of both premises, and clearly Premise #1 is false.

But I'd also add in the notion of context, which is usually critical when it comes to interpreting natural language. Given that you were responding to the following statement...



...the only thing that can be fairly concluded from the following response (without making unwarranted assumptions or reading into the text things that are not there)...



...is that the responder doubts that "sticks or ladder sections are safer than screw-in steps", and believes that [I]either[/I] "sticks or ladder sections are equally as safe as screw-in steps" [I]or[/I] "screw-in steps are safer than sicks or ladder sections".[/QUOTE]

What about ground blinds?
98.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;14799]In defense of Swampy, I am scared to go back on his property (understandably). Don't get me wrong, I'll go back. I mean, what could go wrong?



QUOTE]


LOL...(Between friends...not because it's really funny...:wave:)


Floyd, I promise not to send you up into any stands I haven't been in myself next time. Boneheaded mistake on my part, made in the heat of the fleeting moments of daylight. Not that that's an excuse.

Plus I promise to feed you better next time...:wink
99.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
Ground Blinds. They are not safe either. Cows, snakes, bees, wasp, illegal aliens, drug runners, lightning, pinch fingers, the list just goes on and on. Stay home.
100.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14801][QUOTE=Floyd;14799]In defense of Swampy, I am scared to go back on his property (understandably). Don't get me wrong, I'll go back. I mean, what could go wrong?

QUOTE]


LOL...(Between friends...not because it's really funny...:wave:)


Floyd, I promise not to send you up into any stands I haven't been in myself next time. Boneheaded mistake on my part, made in the heat of the fleeting moments of daylight. Not that that's an excuse.

Plus I promise to feed you better next time...:wink[/QUOTE]

Famous last words.

You still have the tree stand in a double trunk where there are screw ins and you have to transition from one trunk to another?
101.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;14800]What about ground blinds?[/QUOTE]



:laugh:
102.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;14804][QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14801]

Famous last words.

You still have the tree stand in a double trunk where there are screw ins and you have to transition from one trunk to another?[/QUOTE]


Not sure I know that one...Perhaps you have me mixed up with some other 6'2" squirrel in a cowboy hat...
103.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14807][QUOTE=Floyd;14804]


Not sure I know that one...Perhaps you have me mixed up with some other 6'2" squirrel in a cowboy hat...[/QUOTE]

6'2" long legged squirrel in a cowboy hat is right. And his screw-ins are set accordingly..... Not that I complained about having to jump from step to step. I do like the way they hunt down here in Texas. You'd have to be trunk to stumble out or fall out of a box blind down here. Not too crazy about the trap door on the floor models. Being eyeball to eyeball with a snake is not fun.
104.) DParker - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;14800]What about ground blinds?[/QUOTE]

Ground blind goes in the woods, you go in the woods. Deer's in the woods. Our deer.

[I]Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies.
Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston.
And so nevermore shall we see you again.[/I]
105.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Floyd, I've bought a ton of longer treesteps since your visit and your comment that you much preferred them to standard size.

I am trying to tweak my step-spacing routine and am conscious of it (I am by no means the worst of the stretchers out there---No way! Not even close.) but sometimes I still goof and make steps too long even for myself. I try to correct that right away rather than letting it slide (so to speak).

I am about to institute a morning stretch and warm-up routine at Camp Swampy in your honor. Begins promptly at 3:15 AM, before you shower.
106.) luv2bowhunt - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14789]Furthermore, if someone thinks that what I wrote means that I am indicating that sticks and ladders are "LESS safe than screw-in steps and therefore safer" [sic], they need to have their head examined.[/QUOTE]

I thought you wrote all that because you wanted to argue with me, because I said the ladder sections are safer. And for me, I think they are, and apparently Bob thinks they are.

I still think you just came here for an argument, not necessarily a good argument.

You almost killed Floyd and as far as I know you've never been in the Michaux State Forest, so it's doubtful I'd even listen to your arguments.
107.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14811]Floyd, I've bought a ton of longer treesteps since your visit and your comment that you much preferred them to standard size.

I am trying to tweak my step-spacing routine and am conscious of it (I am by no means the worst of the stretchers out there---No way! Not even close.) but sometimes I still goof and make steps too long even for myself. I try to correct that right away rather than letting it slide (so to speak).

I am about to institute a morning stretch and warm-up routine at Camp Swampy in your honor. Begins promptly at 3:15 AM, before you shower.[/QUOTE]


I don't know..... about all that. It all screams.....never leave the rabbit hutch! Never leave the rabbit hutch!! (I saw it in a movie once. Another tiger reference)
108.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
:-)...


"You [I]guys[/I]..."

[Insert bashful dirt-kicking emoticon here]
109.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
Get'em Swampy!! Don't let a good fight go to waste.

Oh and the number one rule? 1. ALWAYS LOOK COOL



I mean, I think it was earlier in this thread you was looking to stir stuff up. Let me go look.
110.) luv2bowhunt - 01/17/2014
Ha, ha, just looked at the tags for this thread. Ha.
111.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14506]I'd like to see a firefight....um, a [I]shootout[/I]...among all the new and newish lighted nocks...:pop:


You know: Compare and Contrast.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14507]By the way, it's been three hours since I posted about concentrated beer you could carry in your pack, and no replies.

What more could you ask for???

Have I told you people lately how bad y'all suck?

Have I?



:wink

:wink:tap::wink[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see a firefight....
112.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
:pop:..

This is more traffic than the site has seen on a Friday since the week it was announced Catherine Zeta Jones was having trouble in her marriage....
113.) luv2bowhunt - 01/17/2014
I want to have Jon and Kenny over to my house for peace talks. I'm sure we all can work this out.

Tree steps do suck, just sayin'.
114.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14819]Ha, ha, just looked at the tags for this thread. Ha.[/QUOTE]


Yeah...How did I get dragged into this?


LOL
115.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
LETUSFIGHTMORE Campaign.

You know, bring it back to the Bowcountry glory days.

Luv2 was at his prime.
Swampy made more sense.
Bullz-i made everyone laugh.
Crookedeye was more like crookedeye.
Jon kept everyone anchored.
PasterBob prayed for us.
Wildbob....wildbobbed more often.
116.) luv2bowhunt - 01/17/2014
Jon used to sell those gizmos for everyone...STS I think it was. He was annoying then.........and now. I've been around a long, long, time and can assure you, Swamp Fox has never made 'since'.
117.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I had forgot how very, very, very picky you get (are) Luv2.
118.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
...and irritating.
119.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
...and bullheaded.
120.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I should not compliment you so much though.
121.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
What I really appreciate about Luv2 is, he will fight against injustice.
122.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
He's a champion of the little guy...
123.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
[URL="http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/11/05/new-chiappa-poly-lite-rhino-revolver/"]http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/11/05/new-chiappa-poly-lite-rhino-revolver/[/URL]

It's such an ugly looking pistol. The new Chiappa Poly Lite Rhino.
124.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
I've heard really good things about how the original Rhino handles, though. The grip and the low bore axis...
125.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Floyd, did you buy a PPQ? PPK? I did a search and it didn't come up.
126.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I have the PPQ and the P99.
127.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
The new PPQ or the older one? Do you have a preference for one of the two (or three)? Long answers are acceptable.

:tu:
128.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I like the paddle magazine release of the original PPQ.
129.) DParker - 01/17/2014
Let's see how much I can cover in a single post...

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14811]I am about to institute a morning stretch and warm-up routine at Camp Swampy in your honor. Begins promptly at 3:15 AM, before you shower.[/QUOTE]

That's it...I'm out. Not that I was ever in, but just in case there was some danger of that ever happening...I'm out.

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;14813]I still think you just came here for an argument[/QUOTE]

No he didn't. He came here for an [I]argument[/I].

[QUOTE=Floyd;14839][URL="http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/11/05/new-chiappa-poly-lite-rhino-revolver/"]http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/11/05/new-chiappa-poly-lite-rhino-revolver/[/URL]

It's such an ugly looking pistol. The new Chiappa Poly Lite Rhino.[/QUOTE]

I used to cringe at the sight of the Rhinos too. But over time I've come to sort of like the "different" look. And while I've not had the opportunity to fire one yet, I like the idea of barrel sitting lower like that in order to...in theory at least...tame muzzle flip.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14841]Floyd, did you buy a PPQ? PPK? I did a search and it didn't come up.[/QUOTE]

You didn't ask me, but we both know that won't stop me from chiming in anyway, so...

I bought my son a PPQ for this 21st birthday. Damned nice polymer framed, striker-fired 9mm. I even like it a little better than my M&P. Overall slightly smaller, including a little bit narrower in profile, which should help a little bit when it comes to concealed carry. It has a good trigger with a reset that you can actually fell, and shoots very well.
130.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;14847]I like the paddle magazine release of the original PPQ.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DParker;14850]You didn't ask me, but we both know that won't stop me from chiming in anyway, so...

I bought my son a PPQ for this 21st birthday. Damned nice polymer framed, striker-fired DAO 9mm. I even like it a little better than my M&P. Overall slightly smaller, including a little bit narrower in profile, which should help a little bit when it comes to concealed carry. It has a good trigger with a reset that you can actually fell, and shoots very well.[/QUOTE]


The mag release difference was part of where I was going with my question, plus among older PPQ's, new PPQ's and the P99 I think that is three significantly different triggers. Maybe only two. Would like any feedback on that I can get.

A PPQ of some persuasion or a P99 are actually on my short list.
131.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14850]

I used to cringe at the sight of the Rhinos too. But over time I've come to sort of like the "different" look. And while I've not had the opportunity to fire one yet, I like the idea of barrel sitting lower like that in order to...in theory at least...tame muzzle flip.



[/QUOTE]


From what I've been able to learn, the theory is reality. Major "me-likey" factor in the real world.


Haven't shot one myself, though.
132.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I like all that, but it's ugly.
133.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
"Snub-nose" has never been a compliment on the beauty pageant circuit, that's for sure.

Not that some of them don't have talent...
134.) DParker - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14853]The mag release difference was part of where I was going with my question[/quote]

I'm assuming that means you know that the mag release on the PPQ is an ambidextrous set of levers positioned on either side of the trigger guard, running parallel with the bottom of the guard. Using it [I]is[/I] a little weird at first, and will require just a little bit of getting used to (and practice, of course), since it's meant to be operated with your index/trigger finger and not your thumb. But the weirdness doesn't last long. Once you've changed mags several times at your first range session it should quickly become both easy and quite natural for you.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14853]plus among older PPQ's, new PPQ's and the P99 I think that is three significantly different triggers. Maybe only two. Would like any feedback on that I can get.[/QUOTE]

I've never fired the P99 nor the first generation of PPQ, so I can't speak to them. But the current PPQ has a very good trigger. Like pretty much all other out-of-the-box pistols it could stand to be a just touch lighter, but that's par for the course. And I didn't find it to be gritty at all. There's a little bit of over-travel, but it's not excessive. And as I said, the reset is easy to detect.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14854]From what I've been able to learn, the theory is reality. Major "me-likey" factor in the real world.[/quote]

I figure it would be based on shooting my M&P. One of the design choices S&W made was to form the grip such that the frame sits further down in your hand when the beaver tail meets the web between thumb and index finger, similarly lowering the barrel relative to your outstretched firing arm. This definitely has the effect of reducing muzzle flip. Not dramatically, but enough to make a noticeable difference.
135.) DParker - 01/17/2014
And, no love for my turning a ground blind question into a [I]Jaws[/I] reference? Man...tough room.
136.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14860]And, no love for my turning a ground blind question into a [I]Jaws[/I] reference? Man...tough room.[/QUOTE]



I got it...I'm just running low on my quota of LOL for the day...[substitutes insane but happy cackling]
137.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
I thought it was an Apocalypse Now reference?
138.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14859]I'm assuming that means you know that the mag release on the PPQ is an ambidextrous set of levers positioned on either side of the trigger guard, running parallel with the bottom of the guard. Using it [I]is[/I] a little weird at first, and will require just a little bit of getting used to (and practice, of course), since it's meant to be operated with your index/trigger finger and not your thumb. But the weirdness doesn't last long. Once you've changed mags several times at your first range session it should quickly become both easy and quite natural for you.



I've never fired the P99 nor the first generation of PPQ, so I can't speak to them. But the current PPQ has a very good trigger. Like pretty much all other out-of-the-box pistols it could stand to be a just touch lighter, but that's par for the course. And I didn't find it to be gritty at all. There's a little bit of over-travel, but it's not excessive. And as I said, the reset is easy to detect.



I figure it would be based on shooting my M&P. One of the design choices S&W made was to form the grip such that the frame sits further down in your hand when the beaver tail meets the web between thumb and index finger, similarly lowering the barrel relative to your outstretched firing arm. This definitely has the effect of reducing muzzle flip. Not dramatically, but enough to make a noticeable difference.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the feedback, and I'm with you on all that. The paddles have been replaced with a "standard American-style" mag release on the newest PPQ (i.e. the PPQ M2), which also uses what they call the Quick Defense Trigger, but I don't recall if the pre-M2 version used that trigger system or not. I do know the P99 doesn't use it.

Interested to hear that you like your son's PPQ a little better than the M&P.

Any comments on the muzzle flip of the PPQ compared to anything else? Kinda checking a source on that...
139.) DParker - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14865]Thanks for the feedback, and I'm with you on all that. The paddles have been replaced with a "standard American-style" mag release on the newest PPQ (i.e. the PPQ M2), which also uses what they call the Quick Defense Trigger, but I don't recall if the pre-M2 version used that trigger system or not. I do know the P99 doesn't use it.[/QUOTE]

Oh, right...I forgot that they'd done that on the M2 (I bought my son's PPQ before those became widely available, so he has the "M2 -1" version). {Emily Litella}"Never mind."{/Emily Litella}

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14865]Interested to hear that you like your son's PPQ a little better than the M&P.[/QUOTE]

Only a little...especially after I dramatically improved my trigger by dropping in an Apex replacement sear. If I were to take relative price into account for an overall evaluation I'd probably call it a wash, or maybe even a [I]slight[/I] edge for the M&P. Otherwise I think the PPQ just eakes out a win.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14865]Any comments on the muzzle flip of the PPQ compared to anything else? Kinda checking a source on that...[/QUOTE]

To be honest I haven't paid that much attention to its MF in terms of comparison with other pistols. I only did that with my M&P because I knew that was one of the design goals for it and I was interested to see how it panned out. But I can say that it certainly doesn't stand out as more noticeable than other guns, and I've found it quite easy to get back on target quickly after each shot.

[QUOTE=Floyd;14863]I thought it was an Apocalypse Now reference?[/QUOTE]

140.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
You need to make up your mind ol'man DParker.
141.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Thanks, again, DP...

And LOL on the [I]Apocalypse Now[/I] pic.... :wink



I saw FMJ again the other night. I'd forgotten how OUTSTANDING! the insults were during the boot camp portion. Next time it comes around, I will take notes for use here on the forum...:wink
142.) DParker - 01/17/2014
Sheesh. Pop (culture) quiz:

[INDENT]What is the order being given to Pvt. Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence by Gny. Sgt. Hartman in the FMJ still pic above?[/INDENT]

Hint: I didn't post it because I thought it was from [I]Apocalypse Now[/I].
143.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
"Choke yourself" or words to that effect..


What do I win?
144.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
And LOL---now I'm really running low on those---I thought you were yanking Floyd's chain about AN vs. FMJ....

Thus the :wink...
145.) DParker - 01/17/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14884]And LOL---now I'm really running low on those---I thought you were yanking Floyd's chain about AN vs. FMJ....

Thus the :wink...[/QUOTE]

I was. And the quiz was for Floyd...though I should have been specific. I'm sure the other students will thank you now for raising the curve.
146.) Swamp Fox - 01/17/2014
Well, I've been known to miss a movie reference here and there...

And not just movies...

:-)
147.) Floyd - 01/17/2014
Never leave the boat .....ol'man dparker
148.) DParker - 01/17/2014
The horror...the horror.

Your turn.
149.) Floyd - 01/18/2014
That's a fact jack
150.) p-pumped - 01/18/2014
To whom ever posted about the jetboil flash.

They are great stoves, but I would spend the extra and get the SOL titanium. I have 2 flash stoves that have been great, but the SOL TI is better. Faster, less gas consumption, and a hair lighter.
151.) DParker - 01/18/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;14890]That's a fact jack[/QUOTE]

It's like breakin' into Wisconsin!
152.) OKY - 01/18/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;14893]It's like breakin' into Wisconsin![/QUOTE]

I got my azz kicked in Wisconsin.
153.) crookedeye - 01/18/2014
has Ronco come up with anything new lately? that guys been slacking as of late...
154.) p-pumped - 01/18/2014
I need to talk to him about some knives he sold me. He said they would never get dull. They did. Ronco dude is on tv, he should not lie or be a douche. I need my rock and chop to be in top form.
155.) crookedeye - 01/18/2014
I got a set of steak knives, there paper thin like tin foil...they looked nothing like on the commercial..
156.) Bob Peck - 01/20/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;14789]Just because one set of risks is different from another does not make that set of risks "safer."[/QUOTE]
You're a regular wordsmith I tell ya.
157.) Bob Peck - 01/21/2014
Tenzig TZ TP14

It's finally here. The perfect turkey pack that's a comfortable chair, pack and which I used in deer hunting spot/stalk/sit situations and loved it!



You know that golf bag that deploys legs and is ready? Yeah, it's like that but it's $300 so it ain't cheap. :-)
158.) ARCHERXP - 01/21/2014
Wow…looks neat