1.) luv2bowhunt - 09/10/2014

Just wondering when most of you think it is too late to do a large scale stand set, including a lot of tree and brush trimming. I try to do all of that during my Winter scouting in Mar./April, with a fine tune in Sept., catching anything that I missed or regrew. But often times those places aren't so attractive when I revisit them in the Summer or early Fall, especially if the mast crop changes drastically from the previous year.

Now I'm a few weeks away from opening day and I'm thinking about a new area but it would require a massive amount of work, probably 2 half days of cutting and trimming. Normally during the season I try to keep it to a minimum, trying to pop up in a new area with the least amount of commotion possible.

Is there a point before or during the season when you say it's too late to do a major trimming and stand setup? Certainly there is a wealth of experience on this topic from some of the experienced deer hunters out there.

2.) bluecat - 09/10/2014

When the season is over it's too late. Until then, any plan of attack is warranted.

3.) Deerminator - 09/10/2014

I'd cut some shooting lanes at the very least. THEN after the season or durring gun season I'd opener up

4.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

Under your theory of saturation scouting (which I am still trying to remember the brilliant acronym I came up with for---give me some more time) it's not too late, nor too early. :wink

But seriously, folks...With an Oct 1. opener I'd get 'r done this weekend and not worry about it. First, the alternative is not having it the way you want it until next year, (which seems oh so far away) and second, two and a half weeks with no disturbance is plenty of time to have a decent buck settle down.

Third, it wouldn't make a difference to a roaming buck who usually lives somewhere else and just happens too wander through there in the rut, which is how/when you're most likely to see a buck on his feet during the daylight anyway. (Therefore, I wouldn't do a lot of woods work and I would be extra sneaky in the rut, but not necessarily be over-cautious before or especially afterwards.)

I might be able to come up with some other reasons given some time, but my Magic Eight Ball says, "Go for it."

5.) Hunter - 09/10/2014

Anytime you find a good spot, go for it!

6.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

I don't think it’s ever too late. In my opinion and experience: Yea, you may spook a specific deer or two...and then again, depending on about a hundred other variables (many of which we have no control over...although we like to fool ourselves that we do!) you may not. Either way, if you do nothing, you will not gain anything.

Now I'm not saying throw prudence out the window (i.e. don't stomp in at the worst time, with the wind blowing directly into an area that you know it shouldn't...you know what I mean here) but several very successful and memorable hunts that I have experienced were not exactly orchestrated text-book style!

7.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

Look... just put on your 'Forest Service' employee costume and go with it...you'll fool 'em and be fine. :-) Deer don't worry about feds...

8.) bluecat - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;24886]Look... just put on your 'Lil Bo Peep' costume and go with it...you'll fool 'em and be fine. :-) Deer don't worry about you...[/QUOTE]

fify

9.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;24884]..

Now I'm not saying throw prudence out the window...[/QUOTE]


Well, I certainly hope not! Not if you want to keep your job and don't want your HuntingCountry jersey burned in the streets!

10.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;24886]Look... just put on your 'Forest Service' employee costume and go with it...you'll fool 'em and be fine. :-) Deer don't worry about feds...[/QUOTE]


Neither do Russians, Iranians, North Koreans, Red Chinese or Middle Eastern jihadists...

11.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

Hey that's pretty neat...how'd you modify my quote and make it look like you copied it...:cf: LOL!

Now that's scary: Luv2 in a Little Bo-Peep costume...

Kinda reminds me of the time I dressed up as a woman for Halloween years ago. My wife started a county chapter of a 'Moms Club' just after we had our first child. At first it was a relatively small group of moms; if I remember right, I think there were 6 moms in the group that first Halloween. So they get together and set up a Halloween Party - idea being to get all the families together and maybe the husbands of the group could get to know each other and you get the idea - do things as group.

So there were a couple of other guys in the group that were hunters too, and for weeks leading up this party, our wives kept promoting that we could visit and talk hunting during this Halloween Party. So then I show up at this part as a raging drag queen and I gotta tell ya, it was really funny talking with those guys. One guy named Todd, really loves to hunt and wanted to talk hunting, but he was so freaked that while we talked he wouldn't even look me in the eye! HAHAHAHHAHA! The irony of that little deal was that Todd and I became good friends and often hunted together. We still laugh about that day when he was sitting next to me talking hunting, but was turned away and visibly uncomfortable! LOL :laugh:

The side benefit was: you'd be surprised how many of those women came up to me and squeezed my fake boobs! :p

12.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;24893]Hey that's pretty neat...how'd you modify my quote and make it look like you copied it...:cf: LOL!...

[/QUOTE]

Oh, we have a whole cottage industry built around that trick around here, LOL. Usually the guys are nice enough to sign their work with a "FIFY" (Fixed It For You)....:wink

13.) luv2bowhunt - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;24893]Hey that's pretty neat...how'd you modify my quote and make it look like I said I was in love with Michael Jackson and had no problem finding the tooth fairy a plausible, believable character and you copied it...:cf: LOL![/QUOTE]


Magic. He's magic I tell you.

14.) Deerminator - 09/10/2014

pics?

15.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

Hahahah! See I learn something new every day...I thought he meant the costume idea was 'iffy!' :-)

16.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Deerminator;24899]pics?[/QUOTE]

Man, I'd have to dig deep for those...I usually don't keep such incriminating pictures lying around. I'm sure my wife has a few some where; I'll see if I can lay my hands on them. That was before digital cameras.

You know, come to think of it...I actually did get an award from the club for the most original costume.

17.) Wild Bob - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;24898]Magic. He's magic I tell you.[/QUOTE]

Well done! LOL!!! :laugh:

18.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

That's a great story WB. :-):-):-)

I hope you didn't burn the pictures...Not that I want to see them or anything...:shocked::laugh:

Reminds me of the time I went to Sportsman's Warehouse with a buddy of mine. I needed some fishing gear and he was just tagging along. I knew he wanted a bino harness and he had a birthday coming up, so I snuck around to the appropriate aisle and found some Crooked Horn stuff.

Naturally, as it goes these days, some of it was in pink camo. I said to myself "That's the ticket!" and I snatched a pink harness off the shelf along with a camo one. I put the pink one in his hands and told him "Happy Birthday!"

It was as if I'd handed him a box of moccasins (the venomous kind, not the warm, soft, comfy kind)...I think I saw him jump a little (LOL...Old joke :wink) ... He would absolutely not touch it! Anyway, it was probably the funniest reaction I've ever seen to a simple birthday present. LOL

(Later I handed him the camo harness and he was visibly relieved.)

19.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

Well, I'm very disappointed...

You know I came here for an argument.

20.) bluecat - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;24921]Well, I'm very disappointed...

You know I came here for an argument.[/QUOTE]

No you didn't.

21.) Bob Peck - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;24804]Just wondering when most of you think it is too late to do a large scale stand set, including a lot of tree and brush trimming. I'm a few weeks away from opening day ... [/QUOTE] Nope. I wouldn't do it.

It'd be one thing if you knew this area well and had some general history with patterns and timing but it doesn't sound like you do. I'd hunt this area staying focused on minimal impact and maximum scoutage (new word, just made 'er up right on the spot)

22.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

So if you know something about an area, that will cause the deer to behave differently than if you don't?

If I cut this lane here on Saturday, the deer I know will be okay with it and the deer I don't become unkillable?

Being a little facetious, but not totally. :wink

I can see how knowing something about an area will cause you to do some things and avoid doing others, and not knowing an area....blah blah blah...but...

I assume Luv knows enough about the area to know where he wants to put his stand. Is there a lot more left to know? (Assuming he's not a complete goober who doesn't know what he's doing.)

23.) DParker - 09/10/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;24927]I assume Luv knows enough about the area to know where he wants to put his stand. Is there a lot more left to know? (Assuming he's not a complete goober who doesn't know what he's doing.)[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a lot of assuming.

24.) Swamp Fox - 09/10/2014

Ask me how I know he knows how to employ sheep's bladders to prevent earthquakes...

25.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

cause,,, you read the entrails???
what do you mean "employ"

26.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;24927]So if you know something about an area, that will cause the deer to behave differently than if you don't?

If I cut this lane here on Saturday, the deer I know will be okay with it and the deer I don't become unkillable?

Being a little facetious, but not totally. :wink

I can see how knowing something about an area will cause you to do some things and avoid doing others, and not knowing an area....blah blah blah...but...

I assume Luv knows enough about the area to know where he wants to put his stand. Is there a lot more left to know? (Assuming he's not a complete goober who doesn't know what he's doing.)[/QUOTE]


Let me explain the area a bit. This is a 200 acre clearcut on the southern slope of the mountain, that rolls all the way down to open fields and orchards. I have a spot made in 2 areas but am looking to make a third, so I can keep moving around and not hunt the same 2 spots repeatedly.

Here's what I do know. There is hunting pressure out in the open woods around this clearcut. There is a dirt State Forest Road at the top and a dead end road at the bottom, where you can park and walk in on the old logging roads. My scouting cameras and eyes tell me, there is deer here. Unlike 90% of the surrounding State Forest.

I know of one definite bedding area and have a stand setup within 100 yds of that. My second stand is a long shot, gut feeling spot. It is where 2 barely visible old skidder paths converge in the middle of the thickest part of the clearcut. This place was tore up with rubs and scrapes last Fall, a spot I found during my Winter scouting.

So, this third location I want to make, I know very little about it. Never hunted it, never put a camera in. Just was looking to slip in and make a place, but normally, these stands take a massive about of trimming to make any decent shooting lanes. Unless you're satisfied hunting one deer trail, which I never am.

I'm leaning towards not doing anything too obtrusive at this point. Maybe hang a stand as a kind of observation stand to get to know a little bit about the this particular area.

27.) Bob Peck - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;24927]So if you know something about an area, that will cause the deer to behave differently than if you don't?

If I cut this lane here on Saturday, the deer I know will be okay with it and the deer I don't become unkillable?[/QUOTE]

Let's not over think this or complicate things unnecessarily as some of us are want to do. :wink

If you know the area well (i.e. have scouted it thoroughly, have trail camera evidence of deer movement and patterns, possibly have already done some pruning, may have hunted it during spring turkey, etc.) you are automatically more informed about what you can/cannot get away with working within the habitat.

This "informed", strategic approach is preferred over bumbling into an area that looks promising and willy nilly cutting shooting lanes and tromping scent all over the place. This will certainly adversely affect mature animals who utilize that space. Uniformed cutting, hacking, tilling, tromping is akin to some stranger walking into your bedroom and arranging your pillows for you.

If you're a meat hunter (which I become early and late season) there is a high likelihood that the earlier you perform your work, the sooner established patterns will return.

Since all of this is subjective (like the effectiveness of one commercial scent product over the other), each habitat is different from the other and there is no empirical data to suggest the a correct answer no one is right or wrong.

28.) Bob Peck - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;24963]I'm leaning towards not doing anything too obtrusive at this point. Maybe hang a stand as a kind of observation stand to get to know a little bit about the this particular area.[/QUOTE]

I'll second that.

Low-to-no impact = stealth
Stealth = Intel
Intel = Opportunity

29.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

Your going to want to fall on your arrow if you lose an opportunity on a nice deer if you don't have some shooting lanes or holes.
Ya know how deer seem to stop before they enter an opening. well I have a shot just before the shooting lane just for that reason.
works:tu:

30.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

Shooting lanes in this area means cutting down dozens and dozens of young less than 1" dia. trees. Not an easy task that you're going to do in an hour or two. Plus I always want to drag the trees out of the immediate area, so you're making several trips dragging clusters of young trees to some farther out trail, trying to block off travel routes that you don't want them using.

Impossible to do this quietly or quickly.

31.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

BRUSH LOPERS AND SOME PARA CORD TO BUNDLE UP THE SAPLINGS AND CARRY THEM OFF.
tHATS THE WAy tOXO AND i WOULD DO IT LIKE THAT HEN WE HUNTED FARMER jOHNS WITCH HAS SINCE TUNED INTO OIL CITY AND CAN NO LONGER BE HUNTED.
( stupid cap lock key )

32.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

D nailed it. I like the idea of observation stands more than the next guy, probably, but once hunting season is in time is precious (and consider that I can boil a 4.5 month hunting season down to about two weeks when the odds at a good buck with a bow are stacked in my favor). Also like his idea of a mini opening before the opening.

I don't have any problem with anything that Bob said, except that stealth doesn't lead to opportunity unless you can thread an arrow where you want it to go. Without sufficient stand prep, all stealth leads to is a peaceful morning observing wildlife and thinking about old girlfriends.

33.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

Beyond that, Luv2 isn't stumbling in there blind and there is a pretty good period to let the area settle...and he can leave it alone even longer if he wants.

But if it is unhuntable, it is unhuntable.

34.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

I had a stand on the power lines at farmer Johns where I had a buck crossin 30 yds out. I cleared that shooting lane further back to 35yds.
Shot the young buck the next afternoon. He didn't act alerted or anything when he walked into the new lane and then caught an arrow in the chest:wink

35.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

clear it out and hunt it 2 weeks later

36.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

So even during the season, you have no problem cutting a bunch of shooting lanes, as long as you have 2 weeks or so to let it settle down?

Of course I need to scout first to even find a spot worthy of the effort. And on that particular, I am going in blind, other than a topo map and Google Earth.

37.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

I just Threw 2 weeks out there I'd hunt it that afternoon

38.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

Well, I thought you already had the stand picked out, just hadn't been over the area with a magnifying glass and your funny little hat and pipe.

I wouldn't have a problem trimming in a travel or feeding area and letting the place settle, but I wouldn't go into the middle of a bedding area to prep in the middle of the season.

39.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

You can picture this area in your mind can't you? :-)

Open acorn woods at the bottoms and sides, in the open timber. Hay fields and orchards along the bottom of the clearcut, at the bottom of the mountain. This entire area is a 'sanctuary' or bedding area.

The deer will be in here early and stay in late, with the hunting pressure they will see, and for the pre-season scouting they probably already are seeing. There won't be any bowhunters doing what I'm doing, hunting where I'm hunting.

Been doing this a long time in PA, I'll be the only one in there. I just need to be in a place that 1)funnels activity, 2)is a travel route, 3)has enough open space to offer a decent chance.

Where all 3 of those converge is the issue. I might be able to find the first 2 but must force the issue on the third.

40.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

Does stand prep in this place queer your other two stands?

Are deer feeding through, walking through or actually plopping down in this particular area?

41.) bluecat - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;24996]Well, I thought you already had the stand picked out, just hadn't been over the area with a magnifying glass and your funny little hat and pipe.

[/QUOTE]

:laugh:

42.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

Let's back up to the 2 stands I already have. The first one I have hunted near, but not in, 2 years ago. Deer mysteriously appear at any time of the day, just slowing passing through. I assume a casual movement in the bedding area. And, I have seen chasing, fighting going on in the known bedding area. Last year 2 bucks were really going at it, just out of my sight. And then I tore my ACL the next day and couldn't hunt there anymore.

The other stand I've never hunted yet, but it is a flat spot, nasty thick, but there are 2 old log skidding rds/trails that are grown over but are still obvious deer trails. These trails were littered with rubs and scrapes last year, and my stand is at a crossroad where these 2 come together. This would be travel routes from feeding farther down the hill to obvious bedding areas farther in to the thick brush.

The mystery third stand would be farther out the ridge, in essence giving me a stand every 1/4 mile or so across the clearcut. It runs more sideways than up and down the mountain. The 200+ acre area is probably a mile wide by 1/2 mile high, give or take.

43.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;25002]Does stand prep in this place queer your other two stands?

Are deer feeding through, walking through or actually plopping down in this particular area?[/QUOTE]


I think you tried to answer those; I'm just keeping them up as a reference.


So do the three stands form a triangle? Or more of a line? If you can use N-S-E-W (triangle) or 1,2,3 (linear) and identify the direction of deer movement it would help me identify.

If I had two stands forming one relatively long side of a triangle and deer movement ran between those two points, I would forget trimming. If movement were attacking a (long) side of the triangle I'd trim, baby, trim. If the side of the triangle were short, I'd forego trimming.

In the case of 123, I'd do something similar. Movement from 1>2>3 or 3>2>1 I would avoid trimming for this year, but movement against the line would encourage me to prep the third stand.

44.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

The stands are linear, probably 1/4 mile or so apart. For the most part initial movement will be perpendicular to the line of stands, heading up the hill in the mornings. During the day is when I've seen movement side to side on the hills.

I really don't think I'm hunting the same doe groups out of either of the stands. So I don't see prepping another area having a negative impact on the other stands. Haven't been in area 3 yet to know what to expect, but it's probably the same pattern. Deer feeding in the open timber and maybe in the orchards at night, moving into the clearcut long before daylight.

My advantage will be being in the 'safe' zone before they get there. Then POW they get there's.:tu:

45.) bluecat - 09/11/2014

Are you using the pythagorean theorem?

46.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;25021]Are you using the pythagorean theorem?[/QUOTE]



Heck, he's had about 300 more years than the pulley to get used to it, so I hope so...

47.) bluecat - 09/11/2014

Well, I was going to say that deer aren't good at math so you probably can just estimate a bit. The o'l wet finger works too.

48.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

Sounds like you have a good set-up. As long as this new stand is not in Position 2, I'd do my work and get out of there for a while. Even if it were in Position 2, I'd take a chance if there were some spectacular windular advantage (as long as we're making up words).

So far no one has explained how one or two days of Sept. prep plus at least two weeks of rest will negatively affect your chances there in October or later. By your own theory you are not going to blow deer out of the area. I might be a big advocate of sanctuaries, but I just don't see how you are being too aggressive by prepping in this case.

Moreover, I don't see Area 3 as being of any use at all this year (except to scout for next) if you can't get a shot in there. So I say give yourself an extra stand to work with.

I used to do a fair amount of prep work at night. Hanging stands, mostly, but you could do a little trimming if you have a good light and trees/brush pre-marked. I prepped at night not only to get some cooler temps but also to allow deer to vacate areas that they would be camped out in during "normal work hours." When they'd leave the window open to go feed somewhere else, I'd crawl in and take advantage.

If I had a lot of snakes in an area, I wouldn't do this, but otherwise I always thought this was one of my better tricks. Also, an electric chainsaw is your friend. :wink

49.) bluecat - 09/11/2014

Stay out of Area 51. Just sayin.

50.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

I'm planning to scout on Sunday afternoon, then I will decide the next move. I'll take lots of pics so everyone can chime in about the topic. Stay tuned folks, you won't want to miss a minute of the exciting action.

51.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

Might as well take a pole saw and some clippers with you...Get a head start, LOL...

52.) Floyd - 09/11/2014

From his posting on here, I know Swampy has done and put in a ton of work at his hunting place these past few years.

Swampy, tell us about the difference from a few years ago and what you are anticipating for this season.

53.) luv2bowhunt - 09/11/2014

So I assume you have no problem setting up stands, during the season too? I thought you were against making an impact and letting them know you are around. Where do you draw the line between, enough and too much impact?

I think that is the real question.

54.) Swamp Fox - 09/11/2014

To boil it down, I'd treat travel areas, feeding areas and sanctuary areas differently.. Let me cogitate on it a while and maybe I can put it into a paragraph or two that would make sense. I'm an advocate of resting areas, but I think it's practically---and I use that word in both of its meanings---impossible around here to do all your prep work pre-season.

There are areas I think deer should be left alone in, areas where I don't think it makes a lot of difference, and other areas where I think deer just need some time to adjust.

Let me get back to you.

Floyd, I'll do the same. Gotta pop out here for a bit.

55.) Deerminator - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;24998]You can picture this area in your mind can't you? :-)

Open acorn woods at the bottoms and sides, in the open timber. Hay fields and orchards along the bottom of the clearcut, at the bottom of the mountain. This entire area is a 'sanctuary' or bedding area.

The deer will be in here early and stay in late, with the hunting pressure they will see, and for the pre-season scouting they probably already are seeing. There won't be any bowhunters doing what I'm doing, hunting where I'm hunting.

Been doing this a long time in PA, I'll be the only one in there. I just need to be in a place that 1)funnels activity, 2)is a travel route, 3)has enough open space to offer a decent chance.

Where all 3 of those converge is the issue. I might be able to find the first 2 but must force the issue on the third.[/QUOTE]

I know exactly where your talking about. I can help you with it if you'd like. Whatsa P.A. out of state licence cost nowdays? check for runs along the edging of the acorn and orchard:tu:

56.) Wild Bob - 09/11/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;24981]Shooting lanes in this area means cutting down dozens and dozens of young less than 1" dia. trees. Not an easy task that you're going to do in an hour or two. Plus I always want to drag the trees out of the immediate area, so you're making several trips dragging clusters of young trees to some farther out trail, trying to block off travel routes that you don't want them using.

Impossible to do this quietly or quickly.[/QUOTE]

I just shoot thru trees. :-)

57.) Deerminator - 09/12/2014

.....

58.) luv2bowhunt - 09/12/2014

[QUOTE=Deerminator;25045]Whatsa P.A. out of state licence cost nowdays?[/QUOTE]

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.:wink

59.) Deerminator - 09/12/2014

Como cut our out of state licence price by half and P.A. and NY kinda fallow each other.So did P.A. do the same?

60.) luv2bowhunt - 09/12/2014

PA non-resident = $101.70

plus you need to buy an archery stamp = $26.70

61.) Deerminator - 09/12/2014

Only 15 bucks for a NY archery privilege permit.

62.) Deerminator - 09/12/2014

Only 15 bucks for a NY archery privilege permit

63.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

Recent article in Petersen's Hunting:


Discover Undiscovered Public Hunting Land in Pennsylvania--

License Fees Should Be Attractive To Non-Residents and Migrant Farm Workers:

Come For The Deer, Stay for the Potholes

64.) bluecat - 09/12/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;25101]Recent article in Petersen's Hunting:


How to out-think yourself with stand placement.

License Fees Should Be Attractive but not THAT attractive.

Come for the Barbecue, stay for the Roadkill.[/QUOTE]

Say what?

65.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

Are you saying N-S-E-W and 1-2-3 are too much?

LOL

66.) luv2bowhunt - 09/12/2014

No, he's just confused with a real hunting discussion, not something normally done on HC. It was a long shot, outside the box, kind of thing.

67.) bluecat - 09/12/2014

Hang on, let me get my sliderule.

68.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

:grin:

69.) Bob Peck - 09/12/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;25104]No, he's just confused with a real hunting discussion, not something normally done on HC. It was a long shot, outside the box, kind of thing.[/QUOTE] :laugh:

70.) bluecat - 09/12/2014

I know when I've been bested.


:co:

71.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

The more I think about how to explain what I would and wouldn't do when and where, the more I'm sure it comes down to instinct, gut feel and past experience coupled with the facts on the ground. I AM big on low impact and stealth and sanctuaries and all that, but I have made all the mistakes there are to make (I think!---No, let me rephrase that so you don't use that as a jump point for clever pokes at me, LOL---I [I]suppose[/I]) I [I]suppose[/I] I have made all the mistakes there are to make regarding scouting and prepping, including over-scouting/prepping and under-scouting/prepping. And that leads me to say that you have to walk a fine line between them.

If I had a place such as you describe--and I get the feeling there is not any more great sanctuary nearby waiting to receive deer if you push them out--- I would think that relatively low-impact scouting would keep deer in the area. I would extend that to prepping a stand, even intensively, and giving the area several weeks to settle. I would try to get all my work and wandering around done in 1-3 consecutive days or nights and vacate, taking the slow boat from China for my return only when it's time to kill something.

If I had an area where alerted deer are going to move deeper into the cover with no need to ever come by my stand again, if they would cross the swamp onto the neighbor, or stop coming to a field at night because of some disturbance I made back in the woods, for instance (and if my stand depended on them coming to that field or leaving it during shooting hours)--I would be advising to leave the area alone.

I think there are times and places where woods-work hurts your chances even when you commit to resting the area (mid-rut, when there is "too much" cover, in sanctuaries, etc.) but I don't think this is one of those situations.

72.) Floyd - 09/12/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;25104]No, he's just confused with a real hunting discussion, not something normally done on HC. It was a long shot, outside the box, kind of thing.[/QUOTE]

:laugh:

He's like Timex....

73.) Floyd - 09/12/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;25111]The more I think about how to explain what I would and wouldn't do when and where, the more I'm sure it comes down to instinct, gut feel and past experience coupled with the facts on the ground. I AM big on low impact and stealth and sanctuaries and all that, but I have made all the mistakes there are to make (I think!---No, let me rephrase that so you don't use that as a jump point for clever pokes at me, LOL---I [I]suppose[/I]) I [I]suppose[/I] I have made all the mistakes there are to make regarding scouting and prepping, including over-scouting/prepping and under-scouting/prepping. And that leads me to say that you have to walk a fine line between them.

If I had a place such as you describe--and I get the feeling there is not any more great sanctuary nearby waiting to receive deer if you push them out--- I would think that relatively low-impact scouting would keep deer in the area. I would extend that to prepping a stand, even intensively, and giving the area several weeks to settle. I would try to get all my work and wandering around done in 1-3 consecutive days or nights and vacate, taking the slow boat from China for your return only when it's time to kill something.

If I had a area where alerted deer are going to move deeper into the cover with no need to ever come by my stand again, if they would cross the swamp onto the neighbor, or stop coming to a field at night because of some disturbance I made back in the woods, for instance (and if my stand depended on them coming to that field during shooting hours)--I would be advising to leave the area alone.

I think there are times and places where woods-work hurts your chances even when you commit to resting the area (mid-rut, when there is "too much" cover, in sanctuaries, etc.) but I don't think this is one of those situations.[/QUOTE]

Post "Big Buck Down" with pictures; gets them every time.

Have you cleared out the rabbit pen?

74.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

The Rabbit Pen Field is in sorghum this year. First year for that. See below. Two years ago it was in soybeans for the first time and that was killer. When it's fallow or grown-up it is hit or miss, depending on what's going on around it.


The camping area in the Rabbit Pen is good to go, though. Weed-et, stocked with firewood and water, wasps exterminated. Fire ants at bay.

I will need a new canopy if I keep the lease next year, though.

[QUOTE=Floyd;25040]From his posting on here, I know Swampy has done and put in a ton of work at his hunting place these past few years.

Swampy, tell us about the difference from a few years ago and what you are anticipating for this season.[/QUOTE]

I suppose the bottom line is that the place has changed a lot since you were there. It's been logged (thinned) in three different areas over two or three years, I'd say, so the thick pine woods where it was nearly impossible to find a stand tree or a shot longer than 15 yards (but where you could always see deer) are gone. They have grown up in dog fennel and pine rows, suitable for sitting in a stand with a rifle, but I consider the area un-patternable with a bow, except on the edges. So on the one hand I lost a really thick area the deer used a lot, and on the other hand I gained a fairly thick area that the deer use a little less and which I can now see into fairly well, if I wanted to get in the middle of it and 25 feet up a pine with no background cover.

The bay (Carolina bay; folks can look it up) with all the oaks where you took a shot has remained the same. This is one of the most gorgeous oak flats not near water most folks have ever seen, with thick cover on two edges, a paved road and more woods and agriculture on the south, and small fields and woods forming my property to the north. It's flat as a pancake (probably the main reason I call it "the oak flat" that I can think of) and draws deer when there are acorns or when something good is in the fields to the north and they travel through the flat between feeding in those fields and bedding in the thick cover to the east.

New tactic? I'm thinking about putting one or two feeders in the flat, but haven't gotten to it yet. Feeders might make deer appearances within 30 yards more predictable, but then again I don't like hunting directly over feeders if I don't have to, and my already-established stands are where they are for good reason. I'm a little leery of changing what subtle travel "patterns" there are in there with corn. It's between taking my chances, luck of the draw, and shooting a deer with a mouthful of yellow gold. I don't think there's really any way to set a feeder and hunt some distance from it to catch deer coming and going... It's too flat.

I have soybeans in the front fields this year, which is always good, but sorghum in the middle. This is the first year I've had sorghum and the deer are not using it yet. I know they will, or might, but it's a matter of when. Soybeans went in late, so I may have them past Thanksgiving, which is great. I don't think they're using them much as of two weeks ago, because everybody else's soybeans are farther along than mine.

I will do my usual oats and clover plots. Probably will set some stands for guests over them, but I'm not big on hunting over them myself. The turkeys this spring loved the ladino clover I planted last fall, but I will probably go back to just Dixie Crimson (with oats) this year. I'm not into mowing the plots, so while I (really, the soil and the wildlife) get some use out of white clover past the point of the crimson's usefulness, I am not encouraging its regeneration. That might not be a great use of my samolians---or my yemenis...

Two other thinned areas provide food, bedding and access. It's been three years (maybe this is the fourth) since cutting and this part of the property has grown up and is an absolute deer magnet. I have stands and cameras scattered throughout, as well as a few feeders which keep deer circulating or traveling past them, or which can be used as kill sites. The whole property is way too flat to say that you can place a feeder at point A and hunt 100 yards away at point B and the feeder will draw deer past your stand (which is how I would really like to use feeders--or food plots for that matter) but it works to at least a small degree in this area I'm referring to now because there is some edge.

I made it a point this year to get all my work done by the time it gets too hot to work in July, and I almost made it-- by spending huge gobs of time there starting last January. I cleared a lot of brush and set several new stands. I put fewer licks in, mostly because there were more important things to do. There's still more to be done, but I think I already have a few new twists to throw at the deer this year. I am using the time between now and Oct 1 to finish up as much as I can. Foot plots go in Oct 1, and then the timing of the rut there says it's "Game On" shortly thereafter.

75.) Deerminator - 09/12/2014

Dang!, sounds like a full time jay-o-be

76.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

No kidding...You have no idea, lol...:dig:

77.) luv2bowhunt - 09/12/2014

I do any of that crap. Just whack down trees and brush, hang stand, hope for the best.

78.) Swamp Fox - 09/12/2014

LOL...

Start smoking cigarettes...I know some guys who say it really works.

79.) luv2bowhunt - 09/23/2014

OK, scouted for stand #3 this weekend. I learned a lot about this clearcut. The top is a fairly broad flat and the hill down the mountain drops off very steep. Very little evidence of a deer even using the steep sidehill, nasty thick, no obvious deer trails. But as you would expect, right along the edge of the flat, before the drop off, there are some great trails running along the edge.

This area is thick with few openings and there were deer beds everywhere. I picked a spot maybe 125 yds in from the open woods, along the well worn trail before the steep dropoff. I decided that messing with this area would have no effect on my other 2 stands, since they are about a 1/4 mile away, and I started the process of cutting shooting lanes. It is a massive effort here (should have taken some pics) and will require a second visit. The prevailing NW winds would blow my scent out over the steep sidehill.

There were several rubs already along the deer trails on the flat. Next problem will be figuring out how to get in without busting deer. I'm sure I'm going to need to hack a path in, which is always a real pain in the buttocks.

I will hang a stand here when done and hang a camera here also. We should be able to see if I've ruined the area completely or if things settle down again and the deer act like it was no big deal.

80.) Wild Bob - 09/23/2014

Good luck!

81.) Deerminator - 09/24/2014

I've been seeing rubs as well.

Just a thought, how are you going to get that big boy out of the woods from way back in there?

82.) luv2bowhunt - 09/24/2014

Not a problem. Old logging road at the bottom of the hill, 300 yds away. Drag him there, go get the cart, and out he comes.

83.) Deerminator - 09/24/2014

:tu:

84.) Swamp Fox - 09/24/2014

Considering I know of no bucks that weren't in hard horn even as early as mid-August (very strange) I haven't come across many tickles, forget about rubs. Kinda weird, but I suppose I haven't been looking in the most certain places, and it is a little early here.

Here's an idea for that first 300 yards, in case you don't use something similar:

[url]http://gameglide.com/[/url]

85.) luv2bowhunt - 09/24/2014

Not a hole in that deer, how did they get him to lay still like that?

That looks good for the field hunters but how well do you think that would hold up through the saplings, rocks, and other brush? Is it sturdier than it looks? Because it looks trash baggish.

86.) Swamp Fox - 09/24/2014

Supposedly it holds up pretty well, even if it gets a tear in it. There's a video on you tube or the website, or both. I intend to get a couple for one spot that I usually use a DeadSled in, just because the DeadSled is bulky and either needs to be hidden ahead of time or carried in, which is a bit more than I care to do.

I believe you might be able to fold this thing up and drag quarters out as well, which you can't do very well with a less-flexible sled.

I expect it is like a tougher version of tyvek?

I'll let you know when I have one in hand.

87.) Wild Bob - 09/24/2014

I've seen a 'Game Sled' product that looked a lot tougher than that...course it took up more room than that, but from the way it felt - it looked tough enough to deal with bare ground, rocks and trees.

88.) Swamp Fox - 09/24/2014

I've used something called the DeadSled for a while...The thing's bomb-proof and does a great job. Rolls up into a tube. It's packable in the same way a big jacket is. Sometime you just lash it on to your pack and off you go, and sometimes you decide to leave it behind.

I like the idea of the Game Glide 'cause I'm gonna make it split the difference between quartering the deer in the woods and carrying it out on your back and sliding the whole animal out on the DeadSled.

Game bags won't stay put on the DeadSled on their own, unless you put them inside another bag, preferably with handles to use in lashing. I've used a duffel bag and that works decently. A water-resistant bag helps sometimes.

I think I can take the same idea and use the Game Glide to save some weight and bulk.

89.) Swamp Fox - 09/24/2014

Here's the DeadSled:

[url]http://deadsled.com/[/url]




24-inch Standard




They also make 36-inch versions, and one with extra lashing.

90.) Deerminator - 09/24/2014

interesting i'm going to check this stuff out