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1.) Fairchase - 09/19/2014
The new [B]TwisterNock[/B] is in production.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]477[/ATTACH]

Add rifling to your bow and arrow.

I noticed there are some skeptics on this site. I think that is normal, every time a new product comes along that offers something different some people make claims without even seeing or trying it.
I am wheeling to send a pack of [B]TwisterNock[/B] to who ever this site suggest, or recomended by most members to try them, and give it a fair evaluation.
So far everything has been positive.

Regards, Jeff

[video=youtube;s3igGilMgEI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3igGilMgEI[/video]

[B]Innovative Products Made by Hunters for Hunters[/B]
2.) Deerminator - 09/19/2014
:groan:
3.) luv2bowhunt - 09/19/2014
4.) luv2bowhunt - 09/19/2014
5.) bluecat - 09/19/2014
This is an awesome thread.
6.) DParker - 09/19/2014
[QUOTE=Fairchase;25562]I noticed there are some skeptics on this site. I think that is normal, every time a new product comes along that offers something different some people make claims without even seeing or trying it.[/QUOTE]

Since I was the one who originally posted about this product ([URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?1220"]The "Twister Nock"[/URL]), and I led off with the phrase, "Call me an incurable skeptic"...I'll assume the above is at least partially directed at me (and is worded such that you suggest that skepticism is some sort of character flaw). So tell me...what "claims" did I make? I offered some speculation (which is clearly described as such) based on the promotional materials that you provided yourself, but made no actual "claims" about anything. And regarding that speculation, why not directly address whatever it was that you think was factually inaccurate (said by either myself or other posters) rather than just blowing it off with dismissive hand-waving? Speaking for myself, I have no problem at all with being proven wrong.

And the notion that you have to physically get your hands on something before you can engage in reasonably educated speculation about it is complete nonsense.
7.) Swamp Fox - 09/19/2014
Luv2 certainly has the touch with the video do-hickeys today...LOL...I count three good ones and maybe more to come...


Maybe someone would be willing to test and report in the off-season.
8.) Wild Bob - 09/19/2014
Keep 'em coming...now this is some Friday entertainment!! :pop:

(But it's still pick on Swampy day...even though no one wants to partake...) :-)
9.) luv2bowhunt - 09/19/2014
10.) luv2bowhunt - 09/19/2014
11.) luv2bowhunt - 09/19/2014
12.) DParker - 09/19/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;25585][/QUOTE]

And the Canadian judge gave her a 9.3.
13.) toxophilite - 09/19/2014
combine that with a lighted nock and then i'll give it a try, I really like my luma-nocks (the red ones ) :tu:
14.) Swamp Fox - 09/19/2014
Ouch!


LOL
15.) Swamp Fox - 09/19/2014
Bluecat was right...This IS an awesome thread!

:tap::-):wink:grin::bad::pop:
16.) Fairchase - 09/21/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;25575]Since I was the one who originally posted about this product ([URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?1220"]The "Twister Nock"[/URL]), and I led off with the phrase, "Call me an incurable skeptic"...I'll assume the above is at least partially directed at me (and is worded such that you suggest that skepticism is some sort of character flaw). So tell me...what "claims" did I make? I offered some speculation (which is clearly described as such) based on the promotional materials that you provided yourself, but made no actual "claims" about anything. And regarding that speculation, why not directly address whatever it was that you think was factually inaccurate (said by either myself or other posters) rather than just blowing it off with dismissive hand-waving? Speaking for myself, I have no problem at all with being proven wrong.

And the notion that you have to physically get your hands on something before you can engage in reasonably educated speculation about it is complete nonsense.[/QUOTE]

There is nothing wrong with skepticism, and as I said it is normal. I don't think you need me to argue with, as you are doing a good job by yourself. In a way it encourage inventors to continue on their path and design products that improve the sport. The archery industry in general is not very open to innovation and new ideas. A perfect example of it is the compound bows. At the beginning there was nothing but cretisisem, sketisem, and rejections. But look at it now. How popular and more advance it has become.

I am a bow hunter and I love nothing more than being able to hunt. If you can accept that, you might see my reason for designing the products that I have designed.

It is known fact that rotation helps to stabilize the arrow. The arrows with helical fletching recover much faster. But helical fletching creates more drag and slows down the arrow. TwiaterNock rotates the arrow mechanically. You are not relying on fletching(air drag) to create rotation.

TwisterNock starts to rotate the arrow(Clockwise) as soon as the bow string pushes the arrow forward. This initial rotation minimizes the flexing of the arrow and results in much straighter arrow departure. It also helps in preserving the kinetic energy.When the arrow flexes on the bow string, you loose the amount of force that causes the arrow to bent. You do not get it back.
After the initial rotation, the arrow comes to a stop. The secondary rotation (clockwise again) happens after the arrow has picked up speed and right before the arrow leaves the bow string. This again helps to stabilize the arrow without relying entirely on fletching.

You do not have to change anything. Just replace the nock with TwisterNock, and after one or 2 shot you will see the difference. It works with all drop away rests and Whisker Biscuit. Some have used it with fix rest and traditional bows. You can set the cock feather in such that clears the rest as it is passing through.
The new TwisterNock weighs 20-22 grain depending on arrow size. It is best used with right helical fletch. It is very quiet. The lighted TwisterNock will be in production soon.

Naturally, I do not expect to win everyone, but I am sure there are people on here who appreciate the efforts made, to make the archery and bow hunting a better sport.There is a lot more information on our web site, and if you have any question, please ask.

God Bless, Jeff
17.) crookedeye - 09/21/2014
i'm starting to like this jeff guy...
18.) Deerminator - 09/21/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;25581][/QUOTE]

is that swampy?:-)
19.) Deerminator - 09/21/2014
Hard, accurate data is good stuff.

I'm just annoyed with commercials being shot at me from all directions nowadays.
TV, cell Phone, and all over the frick'n inter web. and ect;
20.) DParker - 09/21/2014
[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]There is nothing wrong with skepticism, and as I said it is normal.[/quote]

You seem to have forgotten the "some people make claims without even seeing or trying it" part.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]I don't think you need me to argue with, as you are doing a good job by yourself.[/quote]

Then there was very little point to your original post, except as a cheap drive-by comment. But who said anything about arguing? You made a vague comment about people making "claims" (that you presumably are alleging to be factually incorrect). All I did was invite you to identify those "claims" and prove them wrong.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]The archery industry in general is not very open to innovation and new ideas. A perfect example of it is the compound bows. At the beginning there was nothing but cretisisem, sketisem, and rejections. But look at it now. How popular and more advance it has become.[/quote]

Sorry, but that's a cheap cop-out that is far too quickly resorted to by those who can't deal with having their product claims questioned. Slinkard and his HECS nonsense, those pimping the Ozonics snake-oil, et al...they've all run right to that one, and it's no more of a valid argument here. I make my living with technology and innovation, and am always quite happy to see...and support with my hard-earned dollars...someone come along with a better mousetrap. But if there are reasons to question the claims being made then any reasonably intelligent individual will do exactly that.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]I am a bow hunter and I love nothing more than being able to hunt. [B][I]If you can accept that, you might see[/I][/B] my reason for designing the products that I have designed.[/quote]

What a condescending and bizarre thing to say on a site full of bow hunters.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]It is known fact that rotation helps to stabilize the arrow. The arrows with helical fletching recover much faster. But helical fletching creates more drag and slows down the arrow. TwiaterNock rotates the arrow mechanically. You are not relying on fletching(air drag) to create rotation.[/quote]

No, you're relying on a spring loaded mechanism that is going to introduce other energy-robbing factors into the equation. More on that next.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]TwisterNock starts to rotate the arrow(Clockwise) as soon as the bow string pushes the arrow forward. This initial rotation minimizes the flexing of the arrow and results in much straighter arrow departure. It also helps in preserving the kinetic energy.[/quote]

Even forgetting the fact that, as bow hunters, what we really care about is momentum...how is that? Any pre-release rotation induced is going to reduce the linear velocity of the arrow because you're diverting energy away from linear acceleration in order to create rotational velocity. So while the total kinetic energy might be [I]almost[/I] the same during that phase (technically, some energy is going to be lost to the friction introduced by the parts of the mechanical nock rubbing against one another, in much the same way that a bullet is robbed of energy by barrel rifling), the angular kinetic energy is in a form that is not nearly as useful. But that doesn't even really matter, as that energy is going to be lost anyway once this happens...

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]After the initial rotation, the arrow comes to a stop.[/quote]

Well, that's a problem. All of that rotational kinetic energy tied up in the initial rotation, and that was produced at the expense of linear kinetic energy is going to be lost now. But where will it go? Well, some of it will cause the arrow shaft to torque as the nock's rotation comes to a sudden halt, but the rest of the arrow's mass wants to continue rotating. The rest will be transferred elsewhere, most likely into the string as the nock is twisted into, which is what causes the initial rotation to be halted in the first place. So, lose energy to shaft oscillation or lose energy to wasted rotational KE that your linear KE was robbed from in order to produce.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]When the arrow flexes on the bow string, you loose the amount of force that causes the arrow to bent. You do not get it back.[/quote]

And you're not (or at least, the arrow isn't) going to get back the energy lost due to the sudden halting of the arrow's initial rotation prior to the secondary rotation.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]The secondary rotation (clockwise again) happens after the arrow has picked up speed and right before the arrow leaves the bow string. This again helps to stabilize the arrow without relying entirely on fletching.[/quote]

But any additional rotation induced by your nock now is again going to be produced as the result of using energy stored in the spring (which would have otherwise gone mostly into linear acceleration during the initial rotation phase), some of which is going to be lost because of the aforementioned issue of friction between the mechanical parts of the nock. And even that assumes not only that the spring is stiff enough to be able to store enough energy from the initial rotational phase to make a difference in the secondary phase, but is also able to fully decompress and transfer most of that stored energy (what isn't lost to friction) back into the arrow before the nock loses contact with the string. If it doesn't, any energy remaining stored in the spring will mostly go into twisting the nock in the reverse direction due to the huge disparity in inertia between the little plastic nock and the rest of the arrow.

Do you have any evidence that all of this actually happens?

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]You do not have to change anything. Just replace the nock with TwisterNock, and after one or 2 shot you will see the difference.[/quote]

Sorry, but there are enough variables at play when shooting a bow that "one or 2 shots" isn't enough to demonstrate anything.

[QUOTE=Fairchase;25621]Naturally, I do not expect to win everyone, but I am sure there are people on here who appreciate the efforts made, to make the archery and bow hunting a better sport.[/QUOTE]

See, there's that passive/aggressive thing again. We all like things that make hunting better. But at least be honest. This is an effort to make money, which is great. Capitalism fosters innovation, among other things. But don't try to blow smoke up our backsides about how you're just being altruistic by improving the sport for the rest of us.
21.) crookedeye - 09/21/2014
are you serious...

Alex this has..to stop..
22.) crookedeye - 09/21/2014
its dparker..the only thing he's an expert at is quoting people.. I get sick and tired of these guys thinking there smarter than the guy trying to push a product..who cares.. if youre smart enough make youre own product instead of cutting down a guy..


don't buy the freakin thing then...
23.) Deerminator - 09/21/2014
How much did you invest in the mec. knock CE?
24.) DParker - 09/21/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;25645]its dparker..the only thing he's an expert at is quoting people.. I get sick and tired of these guys thinking there smarter than the guy trying to push a product..who cares.. if youre smart enough make youre own product instead of cutting down a guy..


don't buy the freakin thing then...[/QUOTE]

If you don't like what I have to say, you're free to not read my posts. You know...kind of like your whole "don't buy the freakin thing then" idea. That would leave you extra time to invest in sharing more of your insightful thoughts on....well...whatever flips your switch.
25.) crookedeye - 09/21/2014
I cant help but read your post...there hilarious....
26.) crookedeye - 09/21/2014
thank you...:grin:
27.) luv2bowhunt - 09/22/2014
I'm still wondering what all this rotation is doing at the point of impact, and also penetration. At what yardage will we see a noticeable increase in accuracy? At 20 yds, we all pretty much see bullseyes right now.

Nothing going to change at that distance I'm sure.
28.) Fairchase - 10/01/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;25724]I'm still wondering what all this rotation is doing at the point of impact, and also penetration. At what yardage will we see a noticeable increase in accuracy? At 20 yds, we all pretty much see bullseyes right now.

Nothing going to change at that distance I'm sure.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not much with accuracy at 20 yard, but it will help with penetration. A well stabilized arrow penetrates much better specially at 20 yard. If the arrow still fish tailing, the direction of the arrow travel and the angle at the point of entry is not the same, this cause massive friction in the target, and that is why most time you do not get a complete pass through in hunting.


I would like to thank the moderators for cleaning up some of the language on this thread. This is a public forum and I have not insulted anyone here nor anywhere else.

The Idea for the Mechanical Arrow Nock came to me on 2007-8. I spoke about it publicly on 2008. As an inventor I was surprised at the reaction of some people who claim to be pioneer, engineers or expert in the archery. They did not believe that it could be done. "It defies the law of physics" they said. It is impossible to rotate the arrow on the bow string. It cannot be done.
I get really frustrated when I hear people talk like this. Specially engineers. They give a complete new meaning to thinking outside of the box. As far as I know, there is nothing impossible, it is just that, we have not figured it out yet. Once we do, like any other new innovation in our daily life it becomes very possible.

The quest in archery is speed. Everyone wants to shoot faster arrows. In hunting the benefits are; less trajectory, shorter pin gaps, less reaction time for the game animal, and finally better cut for a faster moving blade. Faster arrow means less chance of a miss, due to the fact that the arrow doesn't drop as much, if someone misjudge the yardage.

The bow manufacturers can make bows that shoots faster, but the key is using lighter arrows.
The arrow manufacturers have taken advantage of the carbon fiber arrows, and made the arrows lighter, but to a limit. In order to make even lighter, they have to take away the wall thickness, and that changes the spine reaction. The arrow becomes week and hard to stabilize on a fast shooting bow. There is a need for a game changer. I believe the ability to rotate or manipulate the arrow on the bow string is a solution. Spinning the arrow as soon as it feels the pressure of the bow string, helps the arrow spine reaction. Like a drill bit on a high speed drill, it cuts a precise hole with less chance of breaking the bit. The revolution will limit the flexing of the arrow. TwisterNock starts to stabilize the arrow on your bow string. The arrow leave you bow straight, flies through the air straight and enters the target straight as an arrow.
The arrow with conventional nock starts to stabilize after it leaves the bow, while it is bouncing all over.
Please watch this video and pay attention to the fletching:

[video=youtube_share;4wiH6u69SEY]http://youtu.be/4wiH6u69SEY[/video]

The arrow with the TwisterNock spins like a top as soon as in hits the table. When you shoot the same arrow with a bow, the TwisterNock spins the arrow by 8000-12000 RPM depending on the speed of the bow. You have to cock the TwisterNock every time before the shot.
I have many designs for the Mechanical Arrow Nock, and I intent to bring more of them to the market. I also have 2 us patents with total 48 claims including 4 independent claims. For my first production of TwisterNock, I have chosen a design that is most versatile and it could be used with most common bows and set up including traditional bows. The arrow starts rotation upon release, and then comes to stop as the fletching passes the boss cable, to avoid contact ( you still have to set the cock feather for the TwisterNock as you would for regular nock) Then as the arrow is about to depart it starts to rotate again. Please note that all of this happens so fast and in such split second that is only visible with high speed camera. Those who are engineer or familiar with mechanical design will appreciate the delicate design and how effortlessly the twisternock makes this transition. Traditional shooters can fine tune their cock feather to get the best clearance.
I have designed many products for archery and hunting. I am happy to say that after so many years TwisterNock is finally a product that I am proud of. It does what it has been designed for. It is not a gimmick. It has proven itself.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481[/ATTACH]

There are some who I would like to call “Authority on everything” who without having any knowledge about the product, or how it works, has taken it upon himself to analyze it step by step and impress us with his knowledge. As if they know the product better that the one who designed it. If I am not mistaken he is claiming that the rotation of the arrow or rifling of the gun is a bad thing, even though everyone know that a bullet shot out of a rifled barrel, is much more accurate and keeps the speed and trajectory much higher down range with better penetration. I don’t really know what his intention is, but one thing is very clear, he has gone to a great distance even trying to make it about corrector, or a personal attack. I am not really interested. But I do thank him for his contribution to the sport.

I stand behind my products and what they claim.

Few facts about TwisterNock:

You don’t have to change anything to use it. By just changing the nock you will see great improvement in grouping. I will guarantee 20 yard improvement in your grouping (If you shoot a 2inch group at 40 yard, you will be able to shoot 2” group at 60).

TwisterNock solves a lot of tuning issues with broad heads. You will be amazed at how every shot with broad head hits the same spot.

You may not see speed increase coming out of the bow due to the additional weight(10-12 grain verses regular nock), but your arrow will hit higher down range.

Now, you could get more speed by using less fletching. These are the fletching that I use (3/4" x 1/2") and I shoot fixed 1, ” blades.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]482[/ATTACH]

If you really want more speed, you can use lighter spine arrows, without sacrificing accuracy (TwisterNock mechanically enhances the arrow spine). Considering the nock is heavier, the overall arrow weight stays within limit. You can gain up to 30 FPS on speed of your arrow. It has been done and will post more video.

TwisterNock is not relying on air friction to spin the arrow. The arrow keeps the speed higher and stays afloat further downrange. It also helps the arrow in wind, there is less effect on arrow due to rotation.

It penetrates into the target deeper. The rotation causes massive tissue cut and wound channel.

Mark Beck, is the leading engineer for BloodSport Arrows. He has years of experience working for bow and crossbow manufacturer. He hold several championship in state national and world class level. He has done many testing with TwisterNock. I will post it bellow. Please watch this video:

God bless, Jeff
29.) Fairchase - 10/01/2014
This is the video of Mark test of TwisterNock with broad head.

[video=youtube_share;nT76sPTjVDQ]http://youtu.be/nT76sPTjVDQ[/video]
30.) Fairchase - 10/01/2014
One more video

[video=youtube;sf4slu7F5rk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf4slu7F5rk[/video]
31.) luv2bowhunt - 10/01/2014
[QUOTE=Fairchase;26106]and that is why most time you do not get a complete pass through in hunting.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for more information on the product. I do disagree with your quote above. It is very difficult to keep an arrow in a deer these days at 20 yds, UNLESS you hit a major bone, like a shoulder blade. That is the only time I've not had a pass through.

I wish that Mark would have showed us some footage of the arrow in flight. Do you have a video, perhaps slow motion, that shows the arrow in flight? OK, didn't see the last video before I asked that. Do you need to do anything different to setup the cock feather compared to a regular nock?

Not even going to ask how you've developed an arrow that starts to spin, stops spinning until it clears the rest, and then starts rotating again. You would probably blow my mind with that.
32.) Fairchase - 10/01/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;26110]Thank you for more information on the product. I do disagree with your quote above. It is very difficult to keep an arrow in a deer these days at 20 yds, UNLESS you hit a major bone, like a shoulder blade. That is the only time I've not had a pass through.

I wish that Mark would have showed us some footage of the arrow in flight. Do you have a video, perhaps slow motion, that shows the arrow in flight? OK, didn't see the last video before I asked that. Do you need to do anything different to setup the cock feather compared to a regular nock?

Not even going to ask how you've developed an arrow that starts to spin, stops spinning until it clears the rest, and then starts rotating again. You would probably blow my mind with that.[/QUOTE]

I agree, at 20 yard you usually get a pass through. Not everyone tunes their bow. Most hunters shoot their bow only during the hunting season. The arrow with conventional nock need some distance to get straight. Sometimes 20 yard is not enough and the arrow is still recovering and that would defiantly contribute to bad point of impact. What I meant to say is if you don't get a pass through, this could be the reason.

In Mark's test, he was getting on average 1,1/2" more penetration with TwisterNock at 20 yard.

I have several videos, on our web site and Youtube, that shows the TwiaterNock in slow motion. I also recommend watching the video called "100% Recovery".

You set the cock feather as you would with regular nock while the Twisternock is not being cocked(it is extended). Once you cock it it will change the cock feather position, but that is ok.
33.) bluecat - 10/01/2014
[QUOTE=Fairchase;26117] The arrow with conventional nock need some distance to get straight.
[/QUOTE]

When you paper tune you are supposed to stand approximately 6 - 8 feet away from the paper because any longer than that the arrow has corrected itself out of the bow.
34.) Fairchase - 10/01/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26119]When you paper tune you are supposed to stand approximately 6 - 8 feet away from the paper because any longer than that the arrow has corrected itself out of the bow.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Fairchase] Not everyone tunes their bow.[/QUOTE]

If the bow is not tuned, the arrow will fishtail all the way.

Obviously you do tune your bow.