vBCms Comments
Welcome To Hunting Country
General Hunting Forums
Archery & Bowhunting
Shooting Sports
Manufacturers' Corner
Firearms
Classifieds
Not Hunting / General Chit Chat
1.) Ar-mink - 01/24/2014
It seems that I've caught the AR bug and can't seem to shake it. I've never owned one or even fired one for that matter. I'll be getting my quarterly bonus here in mid February, and seriously thinking of putting some of it towards an AR-15. Any recommendation for an entry level AR? (would like to stay under $1k) I've been looking at the m&p 15, mostly just because I have the m&p pistol and love it. I'd use it mostly just for backyard plinking, and probably take it after coyotes the few times I go each year. Maybe.... But doubtfully use it for deer hunting, can't see me choosen it over the 270, 30-30, or 300 for deer. Thanks for the input and feel free to share pics of yours as reference.
2.) DParker - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]It seems that I've caught the AR bug and can't seem to shake it.[/QUOTE]
That's because there is no cure. Not even more cowbell.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I've never owned one or even fired one for that matter. I'll be getting my quarterly bonus here in mid February, and seriously thinking of putting some of it towards an AR-15. Any recommendation for an entry level AR? (would like to stay under $1k)[/QUOTE]
Staying under $1K is not difficult, even if you do a completely customized build (that is, if we're not including the cost of any optics).
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I've been looking at the m&p 15, mostly just because I have the m&p pistol and love it.[/QUOTE]
I carry an M&P9 and am quite happy with it as well. But there's really no relationship (other than the manufacturer) between it and the M&P-15, so I wouldn't use that as a selection criteria, especially given the number of companies that make very good/excellent competing products. There's nothing wrong with the choice of an M&P-15, mind you. It's a good rifle that can be had for a reasonable price. I'm just suggesting that you not let brand loyalty be your guide.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I'd use it mostly just for backyard plinking, and probably take it after coyotes the few times I go each year. Maybe.... But doubtfully use it for deer hunting, can't see me choosen it over the 270, 30-30, or 300 for deer[/QUOTE]
It's also an [B]excellent[/B] choice for a hog gun.
Every time someone brings this up I say the same thing: Given the huge array of options you have when it comes to AR components, the most important thing you can do at this point is decide what you plan on using the gun for. It sounds like you've already got a pretty good handle on that, so that will go a long way towards preventing you from ending up with something that you're not really happy with. Since pretty much anything will work for plinking we can essentially eliminate that in terms of criteria and focus on the potential hunting uses when it comes to the following items:
[LIST]
[*][B]Chambering -[/B] There are many options for AR uppers chambered for a wide variety of cartridges. But anything other than .223/5.56 is generally going to bust your budget, unless you seriously scrimp on everything else...which you're not going to do if you go with a non-standard upper. So the remainder of this lists assumes a .223/5.56 AR.
[*][B]Barrel length -[/B] If your primary use for the rifle is hunting then anything from 16"- 20" will work well. If you opt for an off-the-shelf gun then 16" is going to be your most common option, though some mfgs like Remington offer some hunting-geared ARs with 18" barrels as standard. To be honest, I've not seen any convincing evidence that would make me prefer one over the other when it comes to ballistic performance, so I tend to favor the shorter barrel just to save a little weight and make it 2" less cumbersome to handle. But I wouldn't pass on an 18"er if I otherwise really liked the rifle.
[*][B]Barrel Twist Rate -[/B] Theoretically, the ideal twist rate for a range of hunting options would be 1:8, since it will reliably stabilize just about any .223 bullet you care to put through it. But for some reason 1:9 and, to a lesser extent 1:7 are the norms. You can find ARs/uppers with 1:8 barrels, but that'll severely restrict your options. Given the choice between the other two I'd go with 1:7. It's what I have and I've not had any problems stabilizing pills down to 55 gr, and I know it will handle anything at the top end (75-80 gr) for larger game, where 1:9 might not.
[*][B]Barrel Muzzle Add-Ons -[/B] The vast majority of AR barrels are tipped with some sort of flash-hider...just because the military versions have them. To be honest, unless you're shipping out to Afghanistan or plan on hunting at night and want to save your night eyes from temporary blindless, they serve absolutely no purpose on a civilian AR. That is, unless you're like my son and trying to make your gun as light as possibly by getting a 14.5" barrel with a 1.6" flash-hider permanently pin-welded on to meet the 16" legal minimum. So if I ever build another AR or just replace the upper on the one I have then I'm likely to forego the cage (slang term for the flash-hider) and get a barrel with just a crowned muzzle. But if you can't find an AR/upper that you otherwise really like without a cage then I wouldn't sweat it. It won't hurt anything, other than making the gun a bit louder from your perspective, and add a little unnecessary length (assuming the rest of the barrel is already >= 16").
[*][B]Trigger -[/B] Unless you're building your own, or even if you are and are using the most common lower receiver parts kits...most stock AR triggers suck. There are exceptions, but those are generally higher-end rifles that will tend to exceed your budget. If you build your own you can easily start out with a good 2-stage trigger (like the one made by Rock River Arms) without spending too much extra on it, and what you do spend is well worth the difference. You can also shoot the moon and get a truly match-grade trigger for a couple hundred $ extra. But unless you're headed to Ft. Benning to compete in service rifle matches you're not likely to notice enough of a difference to justify the extra cost. On the other hand, if you buy an off-the-shelf gun with a standard trigger you can always just live with it for the time being and then drop in an upgrade later. It's very easy. And even if you don't want to mess with that yourself your local gun smith should be able to do it for you for next to nothing.
[*][B]Backup Sights (aka "Irons") -[/B] Don't skip these if you plan on using an electronic optic (like a holo or red dot sight). If your optic fails for any reason you can still fall back on using the backup sights if you're shooting within reasonable distances, and you've practiced enough to be proficient with the irons (and if you haven't...shame on you). If you mount a conventional scope then they're not quite a necessary, but still good to have just in case. Like all other AR accessories you can spend a lot of money on these if you want. But if you're not going to be taking your AR into combat or the zombie apocalypse, devoting much of your budget to military-tough backup sights doesn't make any sense to me...unless you just want to point to them when showing your gun to people and saying, "Look at the bad-ass sights on this thing!" The gas block-mounted front post sight that is standard on most uppers is just fine, and won't get in the way of your use of optics. For the rear sight, any quality-made adjustable sight will work fine. I like the Magpul MBUS series of polymer sights because I like to save weight anyway I can, and they're perfectly sturdy enough for civilian use. But a steel one is fine too.
[*][B]Fore Ends -[/B] This is another area where, in hindsight, I made a mistake when building my AR. Like you, my intended uses for the gun were (and still are) range plinking and hunting. And yet I had convinced myself that I had to have a quad rail fore end...because it's an AR and you need to hang all sorts of stuff on it, and you need a rail for that. Well, again...non-combat = quad rails are a waste of money and weight (IMHO), since I'm not hanging laser illuminators and other techie doo-dads on the one I have. And the jagged surface of a quad rail ends up making you want to cover all of the unused rails with some sort of plastic cover so that you don't get stuff hung up on them. You still might want attach one or two accessories to the fore end (like a small bipod on the bottom for varmint hunts or a vertical fore grip...or maybe even a flashlight if you ever press the gun into service as a home defense weapon), so I say go with any one of the many good alternatives that give you some attachment options, but don't have the disadvantages of a full rail system. Aluminum tubes with optional rail segments that you can screw on in one or two places where you need them is one good way to go. And once again, Magpul offers a good solution with its line of smooth-surfaced polymer MOE fore ends, with optional rail sections of various sizes that can be attached/removed as needed. These have the advantage of being lighter than metal tubes, but more than strong enough for your purposes.
[*][B]Stocks -[/B] There are still fixed-stock AR being sold (like several of Remington's), but I honestly don't see any reason at all to go with one vs. a good 6-position adjustable. The ability to change length of pull for different thicknesses of clothing...or different shooters...is just too useful to pass up, and can be had for very little cost (of course you can spend a boat-load on a really fancy one too if you want). Lot's of great options from many manufacturers (including Magpul...blah, blah, blah).
[/LIST]
See, that's the problem with buying your first AR. There are more considerations going into getting one that will really work well for what you want than most people realize. This is why I don't even bother giving brand recommendations at this point. There are just too many manufacturers offering really good products to worry about that until you've first narrowed down your options based on functionality features. Then see who offers the closest guns to what you really want and choose from there.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]Thanks for the input and feel free to share pics of yours as reference.[/QUOTE]
Don't mind if I do. :wink
My do-it-yourself job.
My son's home build.
Mine was seriously over-built and with everything pictured cost nearly $2K to put together. Both are based on Bravo Company upper receiver assemblies, but using the lessons learned from my mistakes he put his together for just a hair under $1K, and unloaded it weighs less than [I]half[/I] of what mine does, with its "pencil" profile 14.5" barrel (w/welded flash hider to make it legal length). You can probably get one close to that off-the-shelf for slightly less, but it likely won't be [I]exactly[/I] what you want. But only you can determine how much your "wants" are worth to you vs. how much money you can save by compromising on them.
That's because there is no cure. Not even more cowbell.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I've never owned one or even fired one for that matter. I'll be getting my quarterly bonus here in mid February, and seriously thinking of putting some of it towards an AR-15. Any recommendation for an entry level AR? (would like to stay under $1k)[/QUOTE]
Staying under $1K is not difficult, even if you do a completely customized build (that is, if we're not including the cost of any optics).
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I've been looking at the m&p 15, mostly just because I have the m&p pistol and love it.[/QUOTE]
I carry an M&P9 and am quite happy with it as well. But there's really no relationship (other than the manufacturer) between it and the M&P-15, so I wouldn't use that as a selection criteria, especially given the number of companies that make very good/excellent competing products. There's nothing wrong with the choice of an M&P-15, mind you. It's a good rifle that can be had for a reasonable price. I'm just suggesting that you not let brand loyalty be your guide.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]I'd use it mostly just for backyard plinking, and probably take it after coyotes the few times I go each year. Maybe.... But doubtfully use it for deer hunting, can't see me choosen it over the 270, 30-30, or 300 for deer[/QUOTE]
It's also an [B]excellent[/B] choice for a hog gun.
Every time someone brings this up I say the same thing: Given the huge array of options you have when it comes to AR components, the most important thing you can do at this point is decide what you plan on using the gun for. It sounds like you've already got a pretty good handle on that, so that will go a long way towards preventing you from ending up with something that you're not really happy with. Since pretty much anything will work for plinking we can essentially eliminate that in terms of criteria and focus on the potential hunting uses when it comes to the following items:
[LIST]
[*][B]Chambering -[/B] There are many options for AR uppers chambered for a wide variety of cartridges. But anything other than .223/5.56 is generally going to bust your budget, unless you seriously scrimp on everything else...which you're not going to do if you go with a non-standard upper. So the remainder of this lists assumes a .223/5.56 AR.
[*][B]Barrel length -[/B] If your primary use for the rifle is hunting then anything from 16"- 20" will work well. If you opt for an off-the-shelf gun then 16" is going to be your most common option, though some mfgs like Remington offer some hunting-geared ARs with 18" barrels as standard. To be honest, I've not seen any convincing evidence that would make me prefer one over the other when it comes to ballistic performance, so I tend to favor the shorter barrel just to save a little weight and make it 2" less cumbersome to handle. But I wouldn't pass on an 18"er if I otherwise really liked the rifle.
[*][B]Barrel Twist Rate -[/B] Theoretically, the ideal twist rate for a range of hunting options would be 1:8, since it will reliably stabilize just about any .223 bullet you care to put through it. But for some reason 1:9 and, to a lesser extent 1:7 are the norms. You can find ARs/uppers with 1:8 barrels, but that'll severely restrict your options. Given the choice between the other two I'd go with 1:7. It's what I have and I've not had any problems stabilizing pills down to 55 gr, and I know it will handle anything at the top end (75-80 gr) for larger game, where 1:9 might not.
[*][B]Barrel Muzzle Add-Ons -[/B] The vast majority of AR barrels are tipped with some sort of flash-hider...just because the military versions have them. To be honest, unless you're shipping out to Afghanistan or plan on hunting at night and want to save your night eyes from temporary blindless, they serve absolutely no purpose on a civilian AR. That is, unless you're like my son and trying to make your gun as light as possibly by getting a 14.5" barrel with a 1.6" flash-hider permanently pin-welded on to meet the 16" legal minimum. So if I ever build another AR or just replace the upper on the one I have then I'm likely to forego the cage (slang term for the flash-hider) and get a barrel with just a crowned muzzle. But if you can't find an AR/upper that you otherwise really like without a cage then I wouldn't sweat it. It won't hurt anything, other than making the gun a bit louder from your perspective, and add a little unnecessary length (assuming the rest of the barrel is already >= 16").
[*][B]Trigger -[/B] Unless you're building your own, or even if you are and are using the most common lower receiver parts kits...most stock AR triggers suck. There are exceptions, but those are generally higher-end rifles that will tend to exceed your budget. If you build your own you can easily start out with a good 2-stage trigger (like the one made by Rock River Arms) without spending too much extra on it, and what you do spend is well worth the difference. You can also shoot the moon and get a truly match-grade trigger for a couple hundred $ extra. But unless you're headed to Ft. Benning to compete in service rifle matches you're not likely to notice enough of a difference to justify the extra cost. On the other hand, if you buy an off-the-shelf gun with a standard trigger you can always just live with it for the time being and then drop in an upgrade later. It's very easy. And even if you don't want to mess with that yourself your local gun smith should be able to do it for you for next to nothing.
[*][B]Backup Sights (aka "Irons") -[/B] Don't skip these if you plan on using an electronic optic (like a holo or red dot sight). If your optic fails for any reason you can still fall back on using the backup sights if you're shooting within reasonable distances, and you've practiced enough to be proficient with the irons (and if you haven't...shame on you). If you mount a conventional scope then they're not quite a necessary, but still good to have just in case. Like all other AR accessories you can spend a lot of money on these if you want. But if you're not going to be taking your AR into combat or the zombie apocalypse, devoting much of your budget to military-tough backup sights doesn't make any sense to me...unless you just want to point to them when showing your gun to people and saying, "Look at the bad-ass sights on this thing!" The gas block-mounted front post sight that is standard on most uppers is just fine, and won't get in the way of your use of optics. For the rear sight, any quality-made adjustable sight will work fine. I like the Magpul MBUS series of polymer sights because I like to save weight anyway I can, and they're perfectly sturdy enough for civilian use. But a steel one is fine too.
[*][B]Fore Ends -[/B] This is another area where, in hindsight, I made a mistake when building my AR. Like you, my intended uses for the gun were (and still are) range plinking and hunting. And yet I had convinced myself that I had to have a quad rail fore end...because it's an AR and you need to hang all sorts of stuff on it, and you need a rail for that. Well, again...non-combat = quad rails are a waste of money and weight (IMHO), since I'm not hanging laser illuminators and other techie doo-dads on the one I have. And the jagged surface of a quad rail ends up making you want to cover all of the unused rails with some sort of plastic cover so that you don't get stuff hung up on them. You still might want attach one or two accessories to the fore end (like a small bipod on the bottom for varmint hunts or a vertical fore grip...or maybe even a flashlight if you ever press the gun into service as a home defense weapon), so I say go with any one of the many good alternatives that give you some attachment options, but don't have the disadvantages of a full rail system. Aluminum tubes with optional rail segments that you can screw on in one or two places where you need them is one good way to go. And once again, Magpul offers a good solution with its line of smooth-surfaced polymer MOE fore ends, with optional rail sections of various sizes that can be attached/removed as needed. These have the advantage of being lighter than metal tubes, but more than strong enough for your purposes.
[*][B]Stocks -[/B] There are still fixed-stock AR being sold (like several of Remington's), but I honestly don't see any reason at all to go with one vs. a good 6-position adjustable. The ability to change length of pull for different thicknesses of clothing...or different shooters...is just too useful to pass up, and can be had for very little cost (of course you can spend a boat-load on a really fancy one too if you want). Lot's of great options from many manufacturers (including Magpul...blah, blah, blah).
[/LIST]
See, that's the problem with buying your first AR. There are more considerations going into getting one that will really work well for what you want than most people realize. This is why I don't even bother giving brand recommendations at this point. There are just too many manufacturers offering really good products to worry about that until you've first narrowed down your options based on functionality features. Then see who offers the closest guns to what you really want and choose from there.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15209]Thanks for the input and feel free to share pics of yours as reference.[/QUOTE]
Don't mind if I do. :wink
My do-it-yourself job.
My son's home build.
Mine was seriously over-built and with everything pictured cost nearly $2K to put together. Both are based on Bravo Company upper receiver assemblies, but using the lessons learned from my mistakes he put his together for just a hair under $1K, and unloaded it weighs less than [I]half[/I] of what mine does, with its "pencil" profile 14.5" barrel (w/welded flash hider to make it legal length). You can probably get one close to that off-the-shelf for slightly less, but it likely won't be [I]exactly[/I] what you want. But only you can determine how much your "wants" are worth to you vs. how much money you can save by compromising on them.
3.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
Excellent write-up!
I'm surprised sometimes how loud some .223s are. I suppose this is a flash hider issue as you suggest, but I've never been in a position to do a comparison. Percentage-wise, how much do you think you increase your noise level with a flash hider?
Also, I think the fixed stock and the 1:9 twist thing probably come out of the competition and varmint hunting communities. Maybe more people are shooting lighter bullets than heavier, in regards to the twist rate popularity, and I do know many people feel a fixed stock is more stable and thus allow greater accuracy. To what degree, I don't know, and I also don't know how the better-quality adjustable stocks stack up on that issue, either.
I'm surprised sometimes how loud some .223s are. I suppose this is a flash hider issue as you suggest, but I've never been in a position to do a comparison. Percentage-wise, how much do you think you increase your noise level with a flash hider?
Also, I think the fixed stock and the 1:9 twist thing probably come out of the competition and varmint hunting communities. Maybe more people are shooting lighter bullets than heavier, in regards to the twist rate popularity, and I do know many people feel a fixed stock is more stable and thus allow greater accuracy. To what degree, I don't know, and I also don't know how the better-quality adjustable stocks stack up on that issue, either.
4.) DParker - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]Excellent write-up![/QUOTE]
Thanks. Every now and then I slip up and do something semi-useful. I try to keep that to a minimum though as it sets a bad precedent by unnecessarily inflating expectations.
In retrospect though, I wish I'd added a blank line between each of the bullet items. The result of not doing so is a wall of text that's pretty brutal on the eyes. My apologies for that.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]I'm surprised sometimes how loud some .223s are. I suppose this is a flash hider issue as you suggest, but I've never been in a position to do a comparison. Percentage-wise, how much do you think you increase your noise level with a flash hider?[/quote]
I don't know that I can assign any even semi-accurate numbers to the difference, nor have I done any direct comparisons. But just empirically I know a cage increases the perceived (by the shooter) noise because the redirection of much of the pressure wave towards the rear of the gun is due to the large holes in the flash-hider, which is essentially the same issue as with a muzzle break. And we all know what those do. Also, at least part of the reason for the perceived loudness of .223-chambered ARs is the higher frequency of the sound waves generated by the higher-than-average velocity bullets as they exit the barrel, essentially creating a higher-pitched "sonic boom". In fact at the range I go to they won't even put AR shooters at the bays that sit right outside of the office door because they're so loud.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]Also, I think the fixed stock and the 1:9 twist thing probably come out of the competition and varmint hunting communities. Maybe more people are shooting lighter bullets than heavier, in regards to the twist rate popularity, [/quote]
WRT twist rates I don't disagree that varmint hunters are going to prefer them (or even slower rates for bullet weights significantly under 55 gr). But the opposite is true of service rifle competition shooters, at least those shooting at longer ranges (say, > 300 yds) who need to shoot the heavier bullets (up to 75-90 gr) in order to maintain enough momentum to buck wind at those distances. Yeah, some shorter-range competition shooters use lighter bullets in their 1:9 barrels and do just fine, but not because that gives them any advantage over heavier bullets and faster twists. For the most part, I think 1:9 twist is an inheritance from the M16A1 legacy. The more modern M16A2-based models use 1:7, in spite of 55 gr ball ammo still being the mainstay of the U.S. forces, and even most domestic law enforcement relies on ammo somewhere around that same weight.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]and I do know many people feel a fixed stock is more stable and thus allow greater accuracy. To what degree, I don't know,[/quote]
So long as you're not shooting competitively, and your adjustable isn't cheaply made with a lot of "slop" then I wouldn't think that you'd notice any difference at all. Unless, perhaps, your hunting requires competition-like accuracy...like vaporizing prairie dogs at 400 yds.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]and I also don't know how the better-quality adjustable stocks stack up on that issue, either.[/QUOTE]
I think some of them (like the Vltor A5 {~$225} and Magpul UBR and PRS lines {~$250}) pretty much have.
Thanks. Every now and then I slip up and do something semi-useful. I try to keep that to a minimum though as it sets a bad precedent by unnecessarily inflating expectations.
In retrospect though, I wish I'd added a blank line between each of the bullet items. The result of not doing so is a wall of text that's pretty brutal on the eyes. My apologies for that.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]I'm surprised sometimes how loud some .223s are. I suppose this is a flash hider issue as you suggest, but I've never been in a position to do a comparison. Percentage-wise, how much do you think you increase your noise level with a flash hider?[/quote]
I don't know that I can assign any even semi-accurate numbers to the difference, nor have I done any direct comparisons. But just empirically I know a cage increases the perceived (by the shooter) noise because the redirection of much of the pressure wave towards the rear of the gun is due to the large holes in the flash-hider, which is essentially the same issue as with a muzzle break. And we all know what those do. Also, at least part of the reason for the perceived loudness of .223-chambered ARs is the higher frequency of the sound waves generated by the higher-than-average velocity bullets as they exit the barrel, essentially creating a higher-pitched "sonic boom". In fact at the range I go to they won't even put AR shooters at the bays that sit right outside of the office door because they're so loud.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]Also, I think the fixed stock and the 1:9 twist thing probably come out of the competition and varmint hunting communities. Maybe more people are shooting lighter bullets than heavier, in regards to the twist rate popularity, [/quote]
WRT twist rates I don't disagree that varmint hunters are going to prefer them (or even slower rates for bullet weights significantly under 55 gr). But the opposite is true of service rifle competition shooters, at least those shooting at longer ranges (say, > 300 yds) who need to shoot the heavier bullets (up to 75-90 gr) in order to maintain enough momentum to buck wind at those distances. Yeah, some shorter-range competition shooters use lighter bullets in their 1:9 barrels and do just fine, but not because that gives them any advantage over heavier bullets and faster twists. For the most part, I think 1:9 twist is an inheritance from the M16A1 legacy. The more modern M16A2-based models use 1:7, in spite of 55 gr ball ammo still being the mainstay of the U.S. forces, and even most domestic law enforcement relies on ammo somewhere around that same weight.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]and I do know many people feel a fixed stock is more stable and thus allow greater accuracy. To what degree, I don't know,[/quote]
So long as you're not shooting competitively, and your adjustable isn't cheaply made with a lot of "slop" then I wouldn't think that you'd notice any difference at all. Unless, perhaps, your hunting requires competition-like accuracy...like vaporizing prairie dogs at 400 yds.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15243]and I also don't know how the better-quality adjustable stocks stack up on that issue, either.[/QUOTE]
I think some of them (like the Vltor A5 {~$225} and Magpul UBR and PRS lines {~$250}) pretty much have.
5.) DParker - 01/24/2014
P.S.
I forgot something. If you think you'll ever be shooting with gloves on then I highly recommend replacing the standard flat trigger guard with the Magpul (yes, I really like their stuff) enhanced trigger guard, which you can see on both of the rifles pictured in my post. The extra room it's curved (kinda') shape gives a gloved finger makes a bigger difference than you might think. In fact I'd recommend it even if you don't plan on wearing gloves, as I just don't like the general lack of room afforded by the flat one...and it's ugly. :-)
The enhanced Magpul guard comes in either aluminum or polymer versions, with the aluminum costing about twice as much. My son and I have the polymer versions and they're great.
I forgot something. If you think you'll ever be shooting with gloves on then I highly recommend replacing the standard flat trigger guard with the Magpul (yes, I really like their stuff) enhanced trigger guard, which you can see on both of the rifles pictured in my post. The extra room it's curved (kinda') shape gives a gloved finger makes a bigger difference than you might think. In fact I'd recommend it even if you don't plan on wearing gloves, as I just don't like the general lack of room afforded by the flat one...and it's ugly. :-)
The enhanced Magpul guard comes in either aluminum or polymer versions, with the aluminum costing about twice as much. My son and I have the polymer versions and they're great.
6.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
GET ONE AR-mink or even two or three.
7.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
And get a suppressor/silencer.
Lots of magazines and ammo
...and shoot, shoot, shoot.
Lots of magazines and ammo
...and shoot, shoot, shoot.
8.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15244]Thanks. Every now and then I slip up and do something semi-useful. I try to keep that to a minimum though as it sets a bad precedent by unnecessarily inflating expectations.
In retrospect though, I wish I'd added a blank line between each of the bullet items. The result of not doing so is a wall of text that's pretty brutal on the eyes. My apologies for that.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Somehow I managed the hard slog...:wink[/COLOR]
WRT twist rates I don't disagree that varmint hunters are going to prefer them (or even slower rates for bullet weights significantly under 55 gr). But the opposite is true of service rifle competition shooters, at least those shooting at longer ranges (say, > 300 yds) who need to shoot the heavier bullets (up to 75-90 gr) in order to maintain enough momentum to buck wind at those distances. Yeah, some shorter-range competition shooters use lighter bullets in their 1:9 barrels and do just fine, but not because that gives them any advantage over heavier bullets and faster twists. For the most part, I think 1:9 twist is an inheritance from the M16A1 legacy. The more modern M16A2-based models use 1:7, in spite of 55 gr ball ammo still being the mainstay of the U.S. forces, and even most domestic law enforcement relies on ammo somewhere around that same weight.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Good points. I hadn't considered long-range competition for some reason. Unknown why all I had in my head was the high fire-rate short stuff when I wrote that.
[/COLOR]
So long as you're not shooting competitively, and your adjustable isn't cheaply made with a lot of "slop" then I wouldn't think that you'd notice any difference at all. Unless, perhaps, your hunting requires competition-like accuracy...like vaporizing prairie dogs at 400 yds.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Roger that. :tu:[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
Now all I need to figure out/re-learn (?) is how to multi-quote a single post as you did so I don't have to reply in red, and I'll be all set.
:-)
In retrospect though, I wish I'd added a blank line between each of the bullet items. The result of not doing so is a wall of text that's pretty brutal on the eyes. My apologies for that.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Somehow I managed the hard slog...:wink[/COLOR]
WRT twist rates I don't disagree that varmint hunters are going to prefer them (or even slower rates for bullet weights significantly under 55 gr). But the opposite is true of service rifle competition shooters, at least those shooting at longer ranges (say, > 300 yds) who need to shoot the heavier bullets (up to 75-90 gr) in order to maintain enough momentum to buck wind at those distances. Yeah, some shorter-range competition shooters use lighter bullets in their 1:9 barrels and do just fine, but not because that gives them any advantage over heavier bullets and faster twists. For the most part, I think 1:9 twist is an inheritance from the M16A1 legacy. The more modern M16A2-based models use 1:7, in spite of 55 gr ball ammo still being the mainstay of the U.S. forces, and even most domestic law enforcement relies on ammo somewhere around that same weight.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Good points. I hadn't considered long-range competition for some reason. Unknown why all I had in my head was the high fire-rate short stuff when I wrote that.
[/COLOR]
So long as you're not shooting competitively, and your adjustable isn't cheaply made with a lot of "slop" then I wouldn't think that you'd notice any difference at all. Unless, perhaps, your hunting requires competition-like accuracy...like vaporizing prairie dogs at 400 yds.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Roger that. :tu:[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
Now all I need to figure out/re-learn (?) is how to multi-quote a single post as you did so I don't have to reply in red, and I'll be all set.
:-)
9.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15247]And get a suppressor/silencer.
Lots of magazines and ammo
...and shoot, shoot, shoot.[/QUOTE]
I would consider a suppressor on a .223 since one of the reasons I have avoided them this long is the noise factor, but I wouldn't want to throw off my rifle's balance badly with the addition.
How big a concern would this be A) with a standard -weight barrel and B) with a heavy barrel (not necessarily a full-blown bull barrel, if I can make that distinction)?
P.S. I also object on principle to paying a wad of money to the feds just to possess a gun part, but that's a separate issue.
Lots of magazines and ammo
...and shoot, shoot, shoot.[/QUOTE]
I would consider a suppressor on a .223 since one of the reasons I have avoided them this long is the noise factor, but I wouldn't want to throw off my rifle's balance badly with the addition.
How big a concern would this be A) with a standard -weight barrel and B) with a heavy barrel (not necessarily a full-blown bull barrel, if I can make that distinction)?
P.S. I also object on principle to paying a wad of money to the feds just to possess a gun part, but that's a separate issue.
10.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
Silly ol'swampy
11.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
So is it my concerns or my principles that are silly? Or both? :p
12.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
A couple of these. A pair of those.
13.) DParker - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15250]How big a concern would this be A) with a standard -weight barrel and B) with a heavy barrel (not necessarily a full-blown bull barrel, if I can make that distinction)?[/quote]
You absolutely can make that distinction, as AR barrels are commonly available in at least three "weight" profiles: Lightweight (aka "pencil"), standard (often referred to as "heavy") and the full-blown bull profile.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15250]P.S. I also object on principle to paying a wad of money to the feds just to possess a gun part, but that's a separate issue.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the need to beg your local sheriff, chief of police or DA to be a sport and sign off on your paperwork, many of whom are complete dillwads who won't do it...just because they think only terrorists want to save their eardrums.
You absolutely can make that distinction, as AR barrels are commonly available in at least three "weight" profiles: Lightweight (aka "pencil"), standard (often referred to as "heavy") and the full-blown bull profile.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15250]P.S. I also object on principle to paying a wad of money to the feds just to possess a gun part, but that's a separate issue.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the need to beg your local sheriff, chief of police or DA to be a sport and sign off on your paperwork, many of whom are complete dillwads who won't do it...just because they think only terrorists want to save their eardrums.
14.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
I just can't image adding a pound-plus and "pick a length" to the end of my barrel would do great things for a handy little 7.5-pound, 36-inch rifle...
15.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15256]I just can't image adding a pound-plus and "pick a length" to the end of my barrel would do great things for a handy little 7.5-pound, 36-inch rifle...[/QUOTE]
Do a search and see if there is a way to mitigate your concerns.
Do a search and see if there is a way to mitigate your concerns.
16.) Ar-mink - 01/24/2014
Thanks for the input DPARKER. I like the idea of building one that's unique rather than buying one off the shelf. It looks like I have much more research to do now.
17.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
Endless veriation with the AR platform.
18.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
Are you talking about this type/length and weight range?
[url]http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_18&products_id=304[/url]
[url]http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_18&products_id=304[/url]
19.) Swamp Fox - 01/24/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15258]Do a search and see if there is a way to mitigate your concerns.[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about this type/length and weight range?
[url]http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_18&products_id=304[/url]
Are you talking about this type/length and weight range?
[url]http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_18&products_id=304[/url]
20.) Floyd - 01/24/2014
Whatever combination you feel will satisfy you.
I recently traded wieght for price. Which I will mitigate with a shorter barrel. Maybe.
I recently traded wieght for price. Which I will mitigate with a shorter barrel. Maybe.
21.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15259]Thanks for the input DPARKER. I like the idea of building one that's unique rather than buying one off the shelf.[/quote]
That's the spirit!! :tu:
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15259]It looks like I have much more research to do now.[/QUOTE]
Then my work here is done. My goal is always to leave you asking more questions than I actually answered. :p
That's the spirit!! :tu:
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15259]It looks like I have much more research to do now.[/QUOTE]
Then my work here is done. My goal is always to leave you asking more questions than I actually answered. :p
22.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15263]I recently traded wieght for price. Which I will mitigate with a shorter barrel. Maybe.[/QUOTE]
What's the length of your barrel now (without a flash-hider or anything else affixed to it)?
What's the length of your barrel now (without a flash-hider or anything else affixed to it)?
23.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Well, the only need I can invent at the moment for a .223 would dictate the shortest barrel I can get and a rifle at 8 pounds max or under (with optics, unloaded), so adding any length and weight at all is a concern of mine. I think I've heard of a suppressor as short as three or four inches in length and as light as 9 or 10 oz., but of course I imagine such an animal costs almost as much as the rifle. And assuming that suppressor is not the equivalent of a unicorn of my imagination, it's still "nothing to sneeze at" in terms of how I would think it would feel at the end of a "ranch rifle."
Floyd, I'm not quibbling with your suggestion to add a suppressor to the wish list... I'm just interested in finding a way to make one work for me.
Floyd, I'm not quibbling with your suggestion to add a suppressor to the wish list... I'm just interested in finding a way to make one work for me.
24.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[url]http://youtu.be/haiqFcIXTqs[/url]
The oil filter suppressor... The only way to go :-)
The oil filter suppressor... The only way to go :-)
25.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
DPARKER I like your sons build, but what's your opinion on the 14" barrel? Does it seem to perform as well as the longer barrels at 200+ yards?
26.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15265]What's the length of your barrel now (without a flash-hider or anything else affixed to it)?[/QUOTE]
Haven't decided yet.
Haven't decided yet.
27.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15269]DPARKER I like your sons build, but what's your opinion on the 14" barrel? Does it seem to perform as well as the longer barrels at 200+ yards?[/QUOTE]
Well, if he ever gets the chance to shoot it beyond 100 yds I'll be able to tell you. Unfortunately our local rifle range only goes out that far. We plan on venturing out to one of the more remote public ranges with up to 500 yd targets, but haven't had a good opportunity yet.
But he mostly wanted it for plinking and pig hunting in thick woods where < 100 yd shots are the rule. That's why it's wearing a red dot sight instead of a scope. And at 100 yds with good ammo I can't tell any difference between the performance of his barrel and mine (though I haven't checked it with my chronograph yet).
If you know you're going to be shooting further than that I'd be inclined to stick with a 16" at least, just to safe.
Well, if he ever gets the chance to shoot it beyond 100 yds I'll be able to tell you. Unfortunately our local rifle range only goes out that far. We plan on venturing out to one of the more remote public ranges with up to 500 yd targets, but haven't had a good opportunity yet.
But he mostly wanted it for plinking and pig hunting in thick woods where < 100 yd shots are the rule. That's why it's wearing a red dot sight instead of a scope. And at 100 yds with good ammo I can't tell any difference between the performance of his barrel and mine (though I haven't checked it with my chronograph yet).
If you know you're going to be shooting further than that I'd be inclined to stick with a 16" at least, just to safe.
28.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15266]Well, the only need I can invent at the moment for a .223 would dictate the shortest barrel I can get and a rifle at 8 pounds max or under (with optics, unloaded)[/QUOTE]
My son's AR is 4.5 lbs unloaded and without the optic. Starting with that would give you plenty of headroom for added goodies. Add that 12 oz YHM can and you've still got 2.75 lbs in your weight budget for an optic and whatnot.
Throw a few more bucks at it and you can shave even more weight (titanium bolt carriers and stuff like that).
My son's AR is 4.5 lbs unloaded and without the optic. Starting with that would give you plenty of headroom for added goodies. Add that 12 oz YHM can and you've still got 2.75 lbs in your weight budget for an optic and whatnot.
Throw a few more bucks at it and you can shave even more weight (titanium bolt carriers and stuff like that).
29.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15270]Haven't decided yet.[/QUOTE]
Ah. I thought you were talking about swapping out an existing barrel for a shorter one.
Ah. I thought you were talking about swapping out an existing barrel for a shorter one.
30.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
I could. ARs are wonderful.
31.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15272]My son's AR is 4.5 lbs unloaded and without the optic. Starting with that would give you plenty of headroom for added goodies. Add that 12 oz YHM can and you've still got 2.75 lbs in your weight budget for an optic and whatnot.
Throw a few more bucks at it and you can shave even more weight (titanium bolt carriers and stuff like that).[/QUOTE]
I guess I have to look harder at a build, then. And/or I've not been looking at the really pricey pieces-parts. If I could get well-under 8 pounds, that would be great for carrying and I wouldn't mind shooting for that as long as I wasn't waving a feather around when it came to sticking my finger in the guard. Plus it would make adding an AR to the arsenal that more justifiable. Probably, it would seal the deal. Even eight pounds is really too much to carry for one application I can think of.
Not that I've turned over every rock, but the lightest off-the-shelf rifle I've found that I like comes in at 7.2 pounds. It's also at the top end of my budget. I guess the way to shave 2+ pounds is to use a lot more polymer? I wouldn't have much weight to start with in extraneous rails, etc.
Throw a few more bucks at it and you can shave even more weight (titanium bolt carriers and stuff like that).[/QUOTE]
I guess I have to look harder at a build, then. And/or I've not been looking at the really pricey pieces-parts. If I could get well-under 8 pounds, that would be great for carrying and I wouldn't mind shooting for that as long as I wasn't waving a feather around when it came to sticking my finger in the guard. Plus it would make adding an AR to the arsenal that more justifiable. Probably, it would seal the deal. Even eight pounds is really too much to carry for one application I can think of.
Not that I've turned over every rock, but the lightest off-the-shelf rifle I've found that I like comes in at 7.2 pounds. It's also at the top end of my budget. I guess the way to shave 2+ pounds is to use a lot more polymer? I wouldn't have much weight to start with in extraneous rails, etc.
32.) DParker - 01/25/2014
Polymer + a shorter pencil profile barrel makes a huge difference. And like I said, that's not even resorting to expensive stuff like tatanium replacements for steel parts.
I'm a bottle of Chianti (sorry, no fava beans) into the night. But when I have a few minutes this weekend I'll post a recap of how my son's build was done, along with current costs for the components that were used.
I'm a bottle of Chianti (sorry, no fava beans) into the night. But when I have a few minutes this weekend I'll post a recap of how my son's build was done, along with current costs for the components that were used.
33.) DParker - 01/25/2014
I don't know what "tatanium" is, but it might be even lighter than titanium...or rarer than unobtainium.
34.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15279]Polymer + a shorter pencil profile barrel makes a huge difference. And like I said, that's not even resorting to expensive stuff like tatanium replacements for steel parts.
I'm a bottle of Chianti (sorry, no fava beans) into the night. But when I have a few minutes this weekend I'll post a recap of how my son's build was done, along with current costs for the components that were used.[/QUOTE]
Sounds great thanks!
Is there any companies, manufacturers, or websites I should stay away from when looking for parts/accessories for the build?
I'm a bottle of Chianti (sorry, no fava beans) into the night. But when I have a few minutes this weekend I'll post a recap of how my son's build was done, along with current costs for the components that were used.[/QUOTE]
Sounds great thanks!
Is there any companies, manufacturers, or websites I should stay away from when looking for parts/accessories for the build?
35.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
You visited AR15 .com yet?
36.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15280]I don't know what "tatanium" is, but it might be even lighter than titanium...or rarer than unobtainium.[/QUOTE]
I heard it was more deadly than kryptonite
I heard it was more deadly than kryptonite
37.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15282]You visited AR15 .com yet?[/QUOTE]
I have now
I have now
38.) DParker - 01/25/2014
OK.apparently I'm so awesome that not even a bottle of Italian grape juice can stop me (I even posted this from a smart phone)...
[table="width: 500"]
[tr][b][td]Item[/td][td]Price[/td][/b][/tr]
[tr][td]BCM 24.5" Lightweight Upper[/td][td]459.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Generic Lower Receiver[/td][td]120.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]CMT Bolt Carrier Group[/td][td]129.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle[/td][td]45.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BCM A2X Flash Hider perma-pinned[/td][td]45.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LPK w/RRA 2-Stage trigger[/td][td]150.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul MOE Trigger Guard[/td][td]8.50[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]BCM Stock mount Hardware[/td][td]58.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul MOE Stock[/td][td]39.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magpul MIAD Grip[/td][td]34.15[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul Mid-Length MOE Fore End[/td][td]33.20[/td][/tr]
[tr][b][td]Total[/td][td]1120.85[/td][/tr]
[/table]
As you can see, the total, which is based on prices available from Bravo Company USA right now, is slightly over you stated budget. This is partly due to increases in prices since my son did his build (over a year ago) and partly due to the fact that he did a fair amount of shopping and waiting for things to be on sale. So if you're willing to do the same amount of virtual leg work you can probably bring that total cost down to $1K or maybe even slightly below.
[table="width: 500"]
[tr][b][td]Item[/td][td]Price[/td][/b][/tr]
[tr][td]BCM 24.5" Lightweight Upper[/td][td]459.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Generic Lower Receiver[/td][td]120.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]CMT Bolt Carrier Group[/td][td]129.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle[/td][td]45.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BCM A2X Flash Hider perma-pinned[/td][td]45.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LPK w/RRA 2-Stage trigger[/td][td]150.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul MOE Trigger Guard[/td][td]8.50[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]BCM Stock mount Hardware[/td][td]58.00[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul MOE Stock[/td][td]39.00[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magpul MIAD Grip[/td][td]34.15[/td][/tr]\t
[tr][td]Magpul Mid-Length MOE Fore End[/td][td]33.20[/td][/tr]
[tr][b][td]Total[/td][td]1120.85[/td][/tr]
[/table]
As you can see, the total, which is based on prices available from Bravo Company USA right now, is slightly over you stated budget. This is partly due to increases in prices since my son did his build (over a year ago) and partly due to the fact that he did a fair amount of shopping and waiting for things to be on sale. So if you're willing to do the same amount of virtual leg work you can probably bring that total cost down to $1K or maybe even slightly below.
39.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
BCM 14.5" barrel?
40.) DParker - 01/25/2014
I've stuck to doing business with online vendors who came recommended by a large number of satisfied customers, and have had consistently good experiences as a result. So I can't really cite, from personal experience, anyone to avoid...and I won't do so based on hearsay. But I will list the ones I've done repeated business with and have no complaints about:
[url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com[/url]
[url]http://www.pkfirearms.com[/url]
[url]http://www.brownells.com[/url]
[url]http://www.midwayusa.com[/url]
[url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com[/url] (That's right...Joe Bob)
[url]http://www.swfa.com[/url]
[url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com[/url]
[url]http://www.pkfirearms.com[/url]
[url]http://www.brownells.com[/url]
[url]http://www.midwayusa.com[/url]
[url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com[/url] (That's right...Joe Bob)
[url]http://www.swfa.com[/url]
41.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15287]BCM 14.5" barrel?[/QUOTE]
Crap. The wine got me on one. Yes, the BCM upper has a 14.5" barrel with a pin-welded flash-hider, not a 24.5" barrel...and it's too late for me to edit. Thanks for the catch.
Crap. The wine got me on one. Yes, the BCM upper has a 14.5" barrel with a pin-welded flash-hider, not a 24.5" barrel...and it's too late for me to edit. Thanks for the catch.
42.) DParker - 01/25/2014
Oops..add this one to the list of good AR component vendors:
[url]http://www.laruetactical.com[/url]
They'll even send you free stuff with your order (a hat, a bottle of BBQ dry rub, an armadillo-shaped bottle opener, etc.)
[url]http://www.laruetactical.com[/url]
They'll even send you free stuff with your order (a hat, a bottle of BBQ dry rub, an armadillo-shaped bottle opener, etc.)
43.) DParker - 01/25/2014
Damn..one more thing. A good 2-point sling is essential for humping your rifle around. To that end you'll need the sling itself as well as attachment points on the rifle. There are a lot of good options for this, but I like the following:
Magpul rail sling attachment = $28.45
End plate sling adaptor = $15.00
Viking MK2 wide sling = $45.00
Sling clasp x 2 = $10.00
Magpul rail sling attachment = $28.45
End plate sling adaptor = $15.00
Viking MK2 wide sling = $45.00
Sling clasp x 2 = $10.00
44.) Jon - 01/25/2014
I'm by no means an expert on AR rifles but I also built my own AR. Mine is a hybrid that I built after searching for the parts I wanted. I found some on gunbroker.com and bought others online direct from distributors. The only piece of advice I have is this: Don't skimp on the barrel, its the single most important piece of the build. Build your AR around the barrel.
45.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15295]I'm by no means an expert on AR rifles but I also built my own AR. Mine is a hybrid that I built after searching for the parts I wanted. I found some on gunbroker.com and bought others online direct from distributors. The only piece of advice I have is this: Don't skimp on the barrel, its the single most important piece of the build. Build your AR around the barrel.[/QUOTE]
Good advice.
This thread has made the AR bug even worse in me. I don't know if I can wait until mid February to start buying parts.
Good advice.
This thread has made the AR bug even worse in me. I don't know if I can wait until mid February to start buying parts.
46.) Deerminator - 01/25/2014
I'd like one to but I don't think I'm allowed to have one here in NYS:bang::rage:
47.) DParker - 01/25/2014
I doubt that you're allowed to even think about such evil things in NY. Expect a knock on your door by the local SWAT team any moment now.
48.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Good info.
To paraphrase Yukon Cornelius, "It's not a fit day out for man nor beast" so I believe I'll camp out at HC today and virtually build my perfect AR. I believe I have enough beer. :wink
As to weight: I'd like to get whatever opinions I can on what people think is too light for accurate real-world hunting with a 16-inch barrel. Not "prairie dog" accuracy or volume of fire, but off a field rest, offhand, or slightly out-of-breath banging away at a target that might be moving. Again, I don't want to be waving a feather, but I also don't want to be humping a nose-heavy pig around. When I mentioned 8 pounds above, that's really what I think is top-end practical, and even at 8 it's a little much.
Speaking of barrel length: When you see a spec that a barrel has a 16-inch barrel, is it safe to assume that if said barrel has a flash hider or a muzzle brake pre-installed that that is in ADDITION to the 16-inches? So that we might be talking about an 18-inch tube, give or take?
As to barrel contour, I had or maybe still have a prejudice against a really lightweight (pencil) barrel for this rifle, but as I'm adding up the ounces the little guy on my shoulder that says the first shot out of a cold barrel is the most important keeps whispering in my ear. If he is ultimately convincing, of course, a light barrel would be fine and even superior for my purposes. When I went looking for barrel specs a while back, though, I'm not sure I saw much more than 4 or 6 ounces difference between light and heavy ("standard"--non-bull) barrels. Am I wrong on that? I know every 4 or 6 oz. adds up, but I would hope to save more than that if I am going to give up something for a light contour on the "hot barrel" side of the ledger.
With that in mind, can someone suggest one or two good-quality fluted barrels to me, especially if they can be purchased with a complete upper half?
To paraphrase Yukon Cornelius, "It's not a fit day out for man nor beast" so I believe I'll camp out at HC today and virtually build my perfect AR. I believe I have enough beer. :wink
As to weight: I'd like to get whatever opinions I can on what people think is too light for accurate real-world hunting with a 16-inch barrel. Not "prairie dog" accuracy or volume of fire, but off a field rest, offhand, or slightly out-of-breath banging away at a target that might be moving. Again, I don't want to be waving a feather, but I also don't want to be humping a nose-heavy pig around. When I mentioned 8 pounds above, that's really what I think is top-end practical, and even at 8 it's a little much.
Speaking of barrel length: When you see a spec that a barrel has a 16-inch barrel, is it safe to assume that if said barrel has a flash hider or a muzzle brake pre-installed that that is in ADDITION to the 16-inches? So that we might be talking about an 18-inch tube, give or take?
As to barrel contour, I had or maybe still have a prejudice against a really lightweight (pencil) barrel for this rifle, but as I'm adding up the ounces the little guy on my shoulder that says the first shot out of a cold barrel is the most important keeps whispering in my ear. If he is ultimately convincing, of course, a light barrel would be fine and even superior for my purposes. When I went looking for barrel specs a while back, though, I'm not sure I saw much more than 4 or 6 ounces difference between light and heavy ("standard"--non-bull) barrels. Am I wrong on that? I know every 4 or 6 oz. adds up, but I would hope to save more than that if I am going to give up something for a light contour on the "hot barrel" side of the ledger.
With that in mind, can someone suggest one or two good-quality fluted barrels to me, especially if they can be purchased with a complete upper half?
49.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
Your rifle just for hunting? If so, hunting what?
50.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Not *just* for hunting, but yeah, primarily for hunting.
Coyotes, hogs, feral dogs, the occasional deer. A flash hider is thumbs-up, a muzzle brake is thumbs-down.
That said, I follow the old saying that only accurate rifles are interesting, so minute-of-coyote would not have me flipping cartwheels at the range. My hunting AR would have to be much better than I am...:wink
So, hunting and the range...
Personal defense? Not expecting that need from this rifle, but no one expects the Spanish Inquisition, either. You never know. But for this rifle, it's not that much of a consideration.
Coyotes, hogs, feral dogs, the occasional deer. A flash hider is thumbs-up, a muzzle brake is thumbs-down.
That said, I follow the old saying that only accurate rifles are interesting, so minute-of-coyote would not have me flipping cartwheels at the range. My hunting AR would have to be much better than I am...:wink
So, hunting and the range...
Personal defense? Not expecting that need from this rifle, but no one expects the Spanish Inquisition, either. You never know. But for this rifle, it's not that much of a consideration.
51.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]As to weight: I'd like to get whatever opinions I can on what people think is too light for accurate real-world hunting with a 16-inch barrel. Not "prairie dog" accuracy or volume of fire, but off a field rest, offhand, or slightly out-of-breath banging away at a target that might be moving. Again, I don't want to be waving a feather, but I also don't want to be humping a nose-heavy pig around. When I mentioned 8 pounds above, that's really what I think is top-end practical, and even at 8 it's a little much.[/quote]
The shortness of a 16" AR, relative to...say...a conventional bolt gun with a barrel running anywhere from 22" - 26", combined with the superior controllability afforded by a pistol grip make those concerns less of a problem when it comes to aiming stability. And they can be ameliorated even further via the use of a vertical fore grip. Since the photos in my first post were taken my son added a short, lightweight polymer (yep...you guessed it...Magpul) VFG to his rifle, and with a good solid stance its very easy to put and keep on target even off-hand.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]Speaking of barrel length: When you see a spec that a barrel has a 16-inch barrel, is it safe to assume that if said barrel has a flash hider or a muzzle brake pre-installed that that is in ADDITION to the 16-inches? So that we might be talking about an 18-inch tube, give or take?[/quote]
Generally speaking, yes. At least, I've not found any vendors who state the barrel length specification as including the flash hider (and anyone who puts a muzzle break on a rifle chambered for .223 needs to be run out of town on the CandyAss Express).
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]As to barrel contour, I had or maybe still have a prejudice against a really lightweight (pencil) barrel for this rifle, but as I'm adding up the ounces the little guy on my shoulder that says the first shot out of a cold barrel is the most important keeps whispering in my ear. If he is ultimately convincing, of course, a light barrel would be fine and even superior for my purposes. When I went looking for barrel specs a while back, though, I'm not sure I saw much more than 4 or 6 ounces difference between light and heavy ("standard"--non-bull) barrels. Am I wrong on that? I know every 4 or 6 oz. adds up, but I would hope to save more than that if I am going to give up something for a light contour on the "hot barrel" side of the ledger.[/quote]
.223/5.56 is a pretty tame cartridge when it comes to heat generation. We're talking about relatively short range hunting here (well under 300 yds, I'm assuming), so unless you're in the habit of doing rapid-fire 30-round mag dumps you're not likely to notice any significant accuracy issues due to barrel heating even with a lightweight profile. In fact you wouldn't notice then either...'cuz you're doing rapid-fire mag dumps.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]With that in mind, can someone suggest one or two good-quality fluted barrels to me, especially if they can be purchased with a complete upper half?[/QUOTE]
Lightweight contour barrels are thin as it is, so I don't think you're going to find any fluted versions of them...and I wouldn't trust one. But I know of at least one vendor who sells complete uppers of reportedly average-to-good quality with an option for fluted heavy and bull contour barrels. For example, here's their bull-barreled "varmint" upper assembly:
[url]http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=262[/url]
Note that in the pull-down menu for barrel options you can get, among other things, a 1:8 twist stainless steel fluted version for an extra $50. For another $50 you can have it threaded (for a flash hider or that suppressor Floyd is going to eventually convince you that you can't live without).
This is a good time to mention something that I overlooked in my earlier long-winded manifesto. To extend the life of your barrel you want to make sure you get a chrome-lined one. Most are, but some...mostly those preferred by long-range match shooters...aren't, because at that level of precision shooting the chrome lining begins to impact accuracy. But for we mere mortals engaging in hog/coyote/rodent eradication and the ventilation of zombie paper targets at distances where we can actually see them, that's not a concern.
The shortness of a 16" AR, relative to...say...a conventional bolt gun with a barrel running anywhere from 22" - 26", combined with the superior controllability afforded by a pistol grip make those concerns less of a problem when it comes to aiming stability. And they can be ameliorated even further via the use of a vertical fore grip. Since the photos in my first post were taken my son added a short, lightweight polymer (yep...you guessed it...Magpul) VFG to his rifle, and with a good solid stance its very easy to put and keep on target even off-hand.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]Speaking of barrel length: When you see a spec that a barrel has a 16-inch barrel, is it safe to assume that if said barrel has a flash hider or a muzzle brake pre-installed that that is in ADDITION to the 16-inches? So that we might be talking about an 18-inch tube, give or take?[/quote]
Generally speaking, yes. At least, I've not found any vendors who state the barrel length specification as including the flash hider (and anyone who puts a muzzle break on a rifle chambered for .223 needs to be run out of town on the CandyAss Express).
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]As to barrel contour, I had or maybe still have a prejudice against a really lightweight (pencil) barrel for this rifle, but as I'm adding up the ounces the little guy on my shoulder that says the first shot out of a cold barrel is the most important keeps whispering in my ear. If he is ultimately convincing, of course, a light barrel would be fine and even superior for my purposes. When I went looking for barrel specs a while back, though, I'm not sure I saw much more than 4 or 6 ounces difference between light and heavy ("standard"--non-bull) barrels. Am I wrong on that? I know every 4 or 6 oz. adds up, but I would hope to save more than that if I am going to give up something for a light contour on the "hot barrel" side of the ledger.[/quote]
.223/5.56 is a pretty tame cartridge when it comes to heat generation. We're talking about relatively short range hunting here (well under 300 yds, I'm assuming), so unless you're in the habit of doing rapid-fire 30-round mag dumps you're not likely to notice any significant accuracy issues due to barrel heating even with a lightweight profile. In fact you wouldn't notice then either...'cuz you're doing rapid-fire mag dumps.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15300]With that in mind, can someone suggest one or two good-quality fluted barrels to me, especially if they can be purchased with a complete upper half?[/QUOTE]
Lightweight contour barrels are thin as it is, so I don't think you're going to find any fluted versions of them...and I wouldn't trust one. But I know of at least one vendor who sells complete uppers of reportedly average-to-good quality with an option for fluted heavy and bull contour barrels. For example, here's their bull-barreled "varmint" upper assembly:
[url]http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=262[/url]
Note that in the pull-down menu for barrel options you can get, among other things, a 1:8 twist stainless steel fluted version for an extra $50. For another $50 you can have it threaded (for a flash hider or that suppressor Floyd is going to eventually convince you that you can't live without).
This is a good time to mention something that I overlooked in my earlier long-winded manifesto. To extend the life of your barrel you want to make sure you get a chrome-lined one. Most are, but some...mostly those preferred by long-range match shooters...aren't, because at that level of precision shooting the chrome lining begins to impact accuracy. But for we mere mortals engaging in hog/coyote/rodent eradication and the ventilation of zombie paper targets at distances where we can actually see them, that's not a concern.
52.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Yes, a fluted "heavy" barrel was what I was shooting for. Best of both worlds, so to speak.
Thanks.
Thanks.
53.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15304]
(and anyone who puts a muzzle break on a rifle chambered for .223 needs to be run out of town on the CandyAss Express).
[/QUOTE]
LOL...You may or may not be surprised how many of them are out there. I can see the justification for being able to watch your bullet hit/second shot "back on target" speed, but I take your point. :-)
(and anyone who puts a muzzle break on a rifle chambered for .223 needs to be run out of town on the CandyAss Express).
[/QUOTE]
LOL...You may or may not be surprised how many of them are out there. I can see the justification for being able to watch your bullet hit/second shot "back on target" speed, but I take your point. :-)
54.) Jon - 01/25/2014
My personal opinion about 90+% of AR owners (myself included) is, the rifle they own is WAY better than the shooter behind it.
A friend of mine owns a entry level Sig and the only difference I feel between his and mine is the crappy trigger his has. Drop a $100 two stage trigger and I'd say an above average shooter couldnt tell the difference.
Personally, I enjoy building stuff and sometimes go overboard but honestly, buying one off the shelf and dropping a nice trigger group would be a great rifle for anything you wanted to do with it.
A friend of mine owns a entry level Sig and the only difference I feel between his and mine is the crappy trigger his has. Drop a $100 two stage trigger and I'd say an above average shooter couldnt tell the difference.
Personally, I enjoy building stuff and sometimes go overboard but honestly, buying one off the shelf and dropping a nice trigger group would be a great rifle for anything you wanted to do with it.
55.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15307]... but honestly, buying one off the shelf and dropping a nice trigger group would be a great rifle for anything you wanted to do with it.[/QUOTE]
I am absolutely 100% with you on that. I'm [I]not[/I] that big on building stuff myself, but if I can pop three or four things together and call it "unique" and "mine" I'm all over that. What I'm not all over is getting down in the weeds and getting anal if it then also involves me doing all the shoveling and hammering. I'll get down in the weeds, but I want someone else to pull the rabbit out. I'm a big-picture guy. :wink
I am inclined to buy something of good quality off the shelf, but there's always some issue, LOL.
I am absolutely 100% with you on that. I'm [I]not[/I] that big on building stuff myself, but if I can pop three or four things together and call it "unique" and "mine" I'm all over that. What I'm not all over is getting down in the weeds and getting anal if it then also involves me doing all the shoveling and hammering. I'll get down in the weeds, but I want someone else to pull the rabbit out. I'm a big-picture guy. :wink
I am inclined to buy something of good quality off the shelf, but there's always some issue, LOL.
56.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15309]I am absolutely 100% with you on that. I'm [I]not[/I] that big on building stuff myself, but if I can pop three or four things together and call it "unique" and "mine" I'm all over that. What I'm not all over is getting down in the weeds and getting anal if it then also involves me doing all the shoveling and hammering. I'll get down in the weeds, but I want someone else to pull the rabbit out. I'm a big-picture guy. :wink
I am inclined to buy something of good quality off the shelf, but there's always some issue, LOL.[/QUOTE]
So long as you go with a pre-assembled upper, putting an AR together from other pieces-parts is easy. So easy a chimp in sunglasses can do it. In fact you don't even need an upper assembly with a hand guard already installed, as those are quite easy to put on yourself as well. In fact it's not [I]that[/I] difficult to assemble your own upper, but it is a lot more grunt work. I avoided that too.
The only thing I'll caution you about is making sure that you're working in an area that makes it easy to find tiny springs and such on the floor when you're putting the guts into your lower receiver. Those little detent springs have a nasty habit of launching themselves into low orbit and then crashing back to earth and rolling under whatever piece of furniture/workbench is hardest to move...and lower parts kits rarely include spares.
I am inclined to buy something of good quality off the shelf, but there's always some issue, LOL.[/QUOTE]
So long as you go with a pre-assembled upper, putting an AR together from other pieces-parts is easy. So easy a chimp in sunglasses can do it. In fact you don't even need an upper assembly with a hand guard already installed, as those are quite easy to put on yourself as well. In fact it's not [I]that[/I] difficult to assemble your own upper, but it is a lot more grunt work. I avoided that too.
The only thing I'll caution you about is making sure that you're working in an area that makes it easy to find tiny springs and such on the floor when you're putting the guts into your lower receiver. Those little detent springs have a nasty habit of launching themselves into low orbit and then crashing back to earth and rolling under whatever piece of furniture/workbench is hardest to move...and lower parts kits rarely include spares.
57.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
LOL...I believe we're on the same wavelength.
58.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
Long winded manifesto. .... :laugh:
59.) OKY - 01/25/2014
Assembling an upper is not hard but there are a few tools you will need to purchase. Vice blocks, armorer wrench or barrel wrench are some you will need. And, assuming you don't buy your barrel and bolt as a matched set, head space gauges should also be added to the list.
60.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
Good info guys! I have got a lot more research to do know. If I could only get this thing called work to quit interfering with my research.
61.) OKY - 01/25/2014
If you have a gunsmith near you, you could always have him do the few steps that require the tools. A barrel install and head space check shouldn't cost much.
62.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
Swampy, become the first person to hit his target 200 plus yard with a light wieght SBR perfectly balance with a titanium silencer meeting and exceeding his highest expectations.
63.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
:-)
Livin' the dream, man!...Livin' the dream...
:grin:
Livin' the dream, man!...Livin' the dream...
:grin:
64.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15316]Swampy, become the first person to hit his target 200 plus yard with a light wieght SBR perfectly balance with a titanium silencer meeting and exceeding his highest expectations.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15317]:-)
Livin' the dream, man!...Livin' the dream...
:grin:[/QUOTE]
I'm glad your dream came alive. Let's see the picture of your rifle.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15317]:-)
Livin' the dream, man!...Livin' the dream...
:grin:[/QUOTE]
I'm glad your dream came alive. Let's see the picture of your rifle.
65.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Still on the drawing board...Thought that was clear.
You think my standards/expectations are too high?
You think my standards/expectations are too high?
66.) Floyd - 01/25/2014
Oops, you said you was living the dream.
No, everything mentioned can be.
Will be an awesome rifle.
No, everything mentioned can be.
Will be an awesome rifle.
67.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Sorry. Didn't mean it the way you took it.
My bad.
My bad.
68.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
I have come across some stuff that indicates a 14.5-inch barrel (plus an attachment) is more of a PITA than it's worth vs. just starting with a 16-inch barrel. Is this just an issue of "If you ever want to reconfigure" or do you all think there is something fundamentally more difficult/fussy about running the shorter barrel with hunting loads? Some people say yes, and some people say no. Assume reconfiguration of the rifle is a non-issue.
69.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15322]I have come across some stuff that indicates a 14.5-inch barrel (plus an attachment) is more of a PITA than it's worth vs. just starting with a 16-inch barrel. Is this just an issue of "If you ever want to reconfigure" or do you all think there is something fundamentally more difficult/fussy about running the shorter barrel with hunting loads? Some people say yes, and some people say no. Assume reconfiguration of the rifle is a non-issue.[/QUOTE]
What problems are these people claiming? We've not seen a single issue in over a year with my son's rifle, nor can I imagine why we would. People with NFA paperwork build short-barelled (as short as 10") and shoot the same ammo in them all the time without issue.
What problems are these people claiming? We've not seen a single issue in over a year with my son's rifle, nor can I imagine why we would. People with NFA paperwork build short-barelled (as short as 10") and shoot the same ammo in them all the time without issue.
70.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[url]http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE[/url]
This seems like a pretty good deal. Opinions?
This seems like a pretty good deal. Opinions?
71.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Sorry again. I could have been more clear.
Again, this is about switching from the shorter barrels to the longer ones on the same rifle, or vice versa...
It seems to me that it's an issue of swapping out/finding appropriate rails and, more importantly, changing gas blocks, the latter of which I understand only vaguely.
I'm not saying I've never heard someone mention some ammo selection concerns with the shorter barrels, but these seem to be less function and cycling concerns (etc.) than velocity and similar ballistic concerns. Put another way, "You're not killing yourself with the extra 1.5 inch, but you are giving things up to save it."
Again, this is about switching from the shorter barrels to the longer ones on the same rifle, or vice versa...
It seems to me that it's an issue of swapping out/finding appropriate rails and, more importantly, changing gas blocks, the latter of which I understand only vaguely.
I'm not saying I've never heard someone mention some ammo selection concerns with the shorter barrels, but these seem to be less function and cycling concerns (etc.) than velocity and similar ballistic concerns. Put another way, "You're not killing yourself with the extra 1.5 inch, but you are giving things up to save it."
72.) OKY - 01/25/2014
That's not a bad deal. My question is, how many of the included parts do you intend to change, if any?
73.) DParker - 01/25/2014
Yep, good deal. Now you're shopping.
74.) OKY - 01/25/2014
Swamp virus, I think you would be better off setting up multiple complete uppers instead of changing barrels out. Of course, if you do, the hand guard length and barrel diameter where the gas block sits are the biggest concern.
75.) DParker - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15325]Sorry again. I could have been more clear.
Again, this is about switching from the shorter barrels to the longer ones on the same rifle, or vice versa...
It seems to me that it's an issue of swapping out/finding appropriate rails and, more importantly, changing gas blocks, the latter of which I understand only vaguely.[/QUOTE]
Nope. The length of the gas system determines that. The parts for a 14.5" barrel fitted with a mid-length gas system are no different than the parts for a 16" barreled gun with a mid-length gas system.
[Quote]I'm not saying I've never heard someone mention some ammo selection concerns with the shorter barrels, but these seem to be less function and cycling concerns (etc.) than velocity and similar ballistic concerns. Put another way, "You're not killing yourself with the extra 1.5 inch, but you are giving things up to save it."[/QUOTE]
I'd bet money that you'd never know the difference, even if there was one.
Again, this is about switching from the shorter barrels to the longer ones on the same rifle, or vice versa...
It seems to me that it's an issue of swapping out/finding appropriate rails and, more importantly, changing gas blocks, the latter of which I understand only vaguely.[/QUOTE]
Nope. The length of the gas system determines that. The parts for a 14.5" barrel fitted with a mid-length gas system are no different than the parts for a 16" barreled gun with a mid-length gas system.
[Quote]I'm not saying I've never heard someone mention some ammo selection concerns with the shorter barrels, but these seem to be less function and cycling concerns (etc.) than velocity and similar ballistic concerns. Put another way, "You're not killing yourself with the extra 1.5 inch, but you are giving things up to save it."[/QUOTE]
I'd bet money that you'd never know the difference, even if there was one.
76.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
Okay, OKY and DP, that makes sense.
Assuming a 16-inch barrel, is there a preference for a certain gas block "profile," or does block profile refer to mating the gas block to the barrel contour?
Prolly gonna have to apologize on this post too, unless it makes any sense to anyone but me, LOL...
Assuming a 16-inch barrel, is there a preference for a certain gas block "profile," or does block profile refer to mating the gas block to the barrel contour?
Prolly gonna have to apologize on this post too, unless it makes any sense to anyone but me, LOL...
77.) DParker - 01/25/2014
This is why you want to go with a pre-assembled complete upper.
And I over-simplified my previous statement. The gas block needs to match the barrel contour. But other than that it's all the same.
And I over-simplified my previous statement. The gas block needs to match the barrel contour. But other than that it's all the same.
78.) Ar-mink - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=OKY;15326]That's not a bad deal. My question is, how many of the included parts do you intend to change, if any?[/QUOTE]
I don't think I would change anything right away.
I don't think I would change anything right away.
79.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15331]This is why you want to go with a pre-assembled complete upper.[/QUOTE]
LOL...
You're not foolin'!
:laugh:
LOL...
You're not foolin'!
:laugh:
80.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2014
[B]Swampy Builds A Rifle[/B]...
81.) OKY - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15330]Okay, OKY and DP, that makes sense.
Assuming a 16-inch barrel, is there a preference for a certain gas block "profile," or does block profile refer to mating the gas block to the barrel contour?
Prolly gonna have to apologize on this post too, unless it makes any sense to anyone but me, LOL...[/QUOTE]
Swampy, the profile mostly refers to sight block, railed or low profile. A typical iron sight is also the gas block and is the easiest way to get both. The railed type are generally for optics platforms with folding back up sights. It should be noted that polymer front sights are not recommended for mounting on these blocks. Having your front sight melt off in a fierce battle with a ground hog would be bad. Low profile is meant to fit under the hand guard.
Assuming a 16-inch barrel, is there a preference for a certain gas block "profile," or does block profile refer to mating the gas block to the barrel contour?
Prolly gonna have to apologize on this post too, unless it makes any sense to anyone but me, LOL...[/QUOTE]
Swampy, the profile mostly refers to sight block, railed or low profile. A typical iron sight is also the gas block and is the easiest way to get both. The railed type are generally for optics platforms with folding back up sights. It should be noted that polymer front sights are not recommended for mounting on these blocks. Having your front sight melt off in a fierce battle with a ground hog would be bad. Low profile is meant to fit under the hand guard.
82.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=OKY;15338] Having your front sight melt off in a fierce battle with a ground hog would be bad. [/QUOTE]
LOL!
Thanks. That helps! :wave:
I've seen specs that say such and such profile is "required" (low profile seems to be what I run across most often) so now at least I have an idea of the ramifications.
LOL!
Thanks. That helps! :wave:
I've seen specs that say such and such profile is "required" (low profile seems to be what I run across most often) so now at least I have an idea of the ramifications.
83.) OKY - 01/26/2014
This is a low profile block.
[URL=http://s141.photobucket.com/user/Dave9950/media/IMG_7044_zpsa555c687.jpg.html]
[/URL]
[URL=http://s141.photobucket.com/user/Dave9950/media/IMG_7089_zpsd7ce0f30.jpg.html]
[/URL]
[URL=http://s141.photobucket.com/user/Dave9950/media/IMG_7044_zpsa555c687.jpg.html]
[/URL][URL=http://s141.photobucket.com/user/Dave9950/media/IMG_7089_zpsd7ce0f30.jpg.html]
[/URL]84.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
gotcha!
85.) DParker - 01/26/2014
A flat dark earth Magpul mag in an all-black AR? Have you [I]no[/I] respect for color coordinated accessorizing?
86.) OKY - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15354]A flat dark earth Magpul mag in an all-black AR? Have you [I]no[/I] respect for color coordinated accessorizing?[/QUOTE]
I was having a bad mag day.
I was having a bad mag day.
87.) OKY - 01/26/2014
Going back to flash hiders and compensators, the Noveske Fire Pig is a good choice for range shooting. It directs the gasses forward, instead of in all directions.
88.) ARCHERXP - 01/26/2014
hahaha
AR fashion police :tu:
but seriously…it looked tacky lol jk
AR fashion police :tu:
but seriously…it looked tacky lol jk
89.) OKY - 01/26/2014
Thanks Carlos, I will now hang my head in magazine shame. If you need me, I'll be sulking in the corner.
90.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Don't let the snobs snob you.
91.) OKY - 01/26/2014
It's too late, I'm damaged goods now.:re:
92.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Well, shame, shame on them.
93.) OKY - 01/26/2014
They didn't notice the obvious mix of 20 and 30 rounders though.
94.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
That's because of nose swell when they are looking down their noses.
95.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
The navy's MK 12 SPR in 5.56 has a mean lookin muzzle break.
96.) OKY - 01/26/2014
MK 12 had several build variants, which one you talking about?
97.) ARCHERXP - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=OKY;15359]Thanks Carlos, I will now hang my head in magazine shame. If you need me, I'll be sulking in the corner.[/QUOTE]
hahaha
i'm sorry. :bang:
:ach:
i still need to outfit my AR
hahaha
i'm sorry. :bang:
:ach:
i still need to outfit my AR
98.) OKY - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=ARCHERXP;15378]hahaha
i'm sorry. :bang:
:ach:
i still need to outfit my AR[/QUOTE]
Not as sorry as I am!:wink
i'm sorry. :bang:
:ach:
i still need to outfit my AR[/QUOTE]
Not as sorry as I am!:wink
99.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15254]A couple of these. A pair of those.[/QUOTE]
Floyd, on your rifles, which hand guards are those?
Floyd, on your rifles, which hand guards are those?
100.) Ar-mink - 01/26/2014
Ok so if I took a complete upper like this one
[url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm[/url]
And I put it on top of a complete lower, let's say this one.
[url]http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html[/url]
Is that all I would need for a complete AR or am I missing something. That would bring my total to just $680 before shipping and FFL.
[url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm[/url]
And I put it on top of a complete lower, let's say this one.
[url]http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html[/url]
Is that all I would need for a complete AR or am I missing something. That would bring my total to just $680 before shipping and FFL.
101.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
You've posted two lowers there. :wink
Make sure your "complete upper" comes with a bolt carrier group and a charging handle. Some listings for uppers don't, though I won't swear any of them are described as "complete" ...I assume you'll see what you need to know somewhere in the product description, though.
Make sure your "complete upper" comes with a bolt carrier group and a charging handle. Some listings for uppers don't, though I won't swear any of them are described as "complete" ...I assume you'll see what you need to know somewhere in the product description, though.
102.) Ar-mink - 01/26/2014
Oops here's the upper
[url]http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE[/url]
[url]http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE[/url]
103.) Ar-mink - 01/26/2014
That one is supposed to come with the bcg and charging handle
104.) DParker - 01/26/2014
And the lower from Joe Bob's is a polymer one. Those haven't received much positive feedback in the marketplace so I don't believe I'd gamble on one.
The Spike's upper you posted a link to yesterday comes with a bolt carrier group, so between that and the complete lower from PSA you would indeed have a complete, functional AR, save for magazines and ammo.
I still highly recommend a trigger upgrade though.
The Spike's upper you posted a link to yesterday comes with a bolt carrier group, so between that and the complete lower from PSA you would indeed have a complete, functional AR, save for magazines and ammo.
I still highly recommend a trigger upgrade though.
105.) Ar-mink - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15390]And the lower from Joe Bob's is a polymer one. Those haven't received much positive feedback in the marketplace so I don't believe I'd gamble on one.
The Spike's upper you posted a link to yesterday comes with a bolt carrier group, so between that and the complete lower from PSA you would indeed have a complete, functional AR, save for magazines and ammo.
I still highly recommend a trigger upgrade though.[/QUOTE]
That was the combo I was going for, accidentally put the joe bobs polymer lower there instead of the spikes upper. Even with a trigger upgrade I would still be under my 1k budget .
The Spike's upper you posted a link to yesterday comes with a bolt carrier group, so between that and the complete lower from PSA you would indeed have a complete, functional AR, save for magazines and ammo.
I still highly recommend a trigger upgrade though.[/QUOTE]
That was the combo I was going for, accidentally put the joe bobs polymer lower there instead of the spikes upper. Even with a trigger upgrade I would still be under my 1k budget .
106.) DParker - 01/26/2014
I'd also plan on wanting a better (more comfortable) pistol grip and, depending on how much slop there is in that stock, upgrading that too. But again, both would still leave you well under budget.
107.) crookedeye - 01/26/2014
you guys have been reading way to many of soldier of fortune magazines...
108.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15382]Floyd, on your rifles, which hand guards are those?[/QUOTE]
They are Rock River Arms. [url]http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=380[/url]
They are Rock River Arms. [url]http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=380[/url]
109.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
Thanks. I thought that might be them. I was looking at their Coyote Carbine for a while, which used to use that style.
Their lower is very much in the running for me. Seems like I might have to look elsewhere for a barrel, though.
Their lower is very much in the running for me. Seems like I might have to look elsewhere for a barrel, though.
110.) DParker - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15411]They are Rock River Arms. [url]http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=380[/url][/QUOTE]
Those are actually a good compromise between what I was talking about and a conventional rail system.
Those are actually a good compromise between what I was talking about and a conventional rail system.
111.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
Yeah, I like them (would like to check the weight) and also the newish "modular" style that at least one company is making. Does away with the rails, but I haven't studied how universal compatible accessories are. They make a lot of sense, though. Would make for a lighter rifle, I'd think, and get all your gear closer to the bore. Assuming you want to hang a bunch of gear on in the first place...
112.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15414]Thanks. I thought that might be them. I was looking at their Coyote Carbine for a while, which used to use that style.
Their lower is very much in the running for me. Seems like I might have to look elsewhere for a barrel, though.[/QUOTE]
Get yourself a diamond fluted light weight pencildick barrel and as much titanium and/or carbon accessories as you can afford and then some.
Their lower is very much in the running for me. Seems like I might have to look elsewhere for a barrel, though.[/QUOTE]
Get yourself a diamond fluted light weight pencildick barrel and as much titanium and/or carbon accessories as you can afford and then some.
113.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
LOL...
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that might leave me eating Beanie Weenies for a few years, but it probably would make for a good picture thread... :grin:
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that might leave me eating Beanie Weenies for a few years, but it probably would make for a good picture thread... :grin:
114.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15419]Yeah, I like them (would like to check the weight) and also the newish "modular" style that at least one company is making. Does away with the rails, but I haven't studied how universal compatible accessories are. They make a lot of sense, though. Would make for a lighter rifle, I'd think, and get all your gear closer to the bore. Assuming you want to hang a bunch of gear on in the first place...[/QUOTE]
You know, you could always pump some iron and build up your muscles.
There are trade offs Swampy. I think that's what most people are really bitching about. They buy what they want, ignoring the trade offs. The when the trade off is realized, instead of understanding what happen, they just curse and trumpet their displeasure as fact, regardless of what actually just happen.
You know, you could always pump some iron and build up your muscles.
There are trade offs Swampy. I think that's what most people are really bitching about. They buy what they want, ignoring the trade offs. The when the trade off is realized, instead of understanding what happen, they just curse and trumpet their displeasure as fact, regardless of what actually just happen.
115.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Carbon Fiber
[url]http://www.carbonarms.us/Carbon-Feather-Handguards/[/url]
[url]http://www.carbonarms.us/Carbon-Feather-Handguards/[/url]
116.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
Although if I could find the barrel in 14.5 with a 1:8 I'd consider it...
117.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15425]Carbon Fiber
[url]http://www.carbonarms.us/Carbon-Feather-Handguards/[/url][/QUOTE]
That's less than I thought it would be. When you say titanium, though, I start getting nervous...
[url]http://www.carbonarms.us/Carbon-Feather-Handguards/[/url][/QUOTE]
That's less than I thought it would be. When you say titanium, though, I start getting nervous...
118.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15424]You know, you could always pump some iron and build up your muscles.
There are trade offs Swampy. I think that's what most people are really bitching about. They buy what they want, ignoring the trade offs. The when the trade off is realized, instead of understanding what happen, they just curse and trumpet their displeasure as fact, regardless of what actually just happen.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Generally I'm not that hot on lightweight firearms. It's just that for this one I need to make it easy to grab and carry with, instead of feeling like it's a bit much and leaving it behind.
There are trade offs Swampy. I think that's what most people are really bitching about. They buy what they want, ignoring the trade offs. The when the trade off is realized, instead of understanding what happen, they just curse and trumpet their displeasure as fact, regardless of what actually just happen.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Generally I'm not that hot on lightweight firearms. It's just that for this one I need to make it easy to grab and carry with, instead of feeling like it's a bit much and leaving it behind.
119.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
...But, since I know what the trade-offs are (or at least I know some of them, or I think I do...LOL) it just makes the decisions velly intellesting...
But I enjoy that, I guess. :wink
But I enjoy that, I guess. :wink
120.) DParker - 01/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15428]Although if I could find the barrel in 14.5 with a 1:8 I'd consider it...[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm[/url]
1:7, which in reality is 1:7.7...close enough for government work and will properly stabilize at least down to 55 gr (and probably smaller as well if using something like Barnes' "Varmint Grenade"s). I'd hazard a guess that the odds of you wanting to use 30-50 gr loads are kinda' slim.
[url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm[/url]
1:7, which in reality is 1:7.7...close enough for government work and will properly stabilize at least down to 55 gr (and probably smaller as well if using something like Barnes' "Varmint Grenade"s). I'd hazard a guess that the odds of you wanting to use 30-50 gr loads are kinda' slim.
121.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Don't be like the Scout kids a scout camp and reach for the heavy 20 gaug as opposed to the light weight one they shot.
122.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Swampy, you know, a good sling will help with that light wieght rifle.
I guess you'll buy a carbon bow soon.
I guess you'll buy a carbon bow soon.
123.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
Swampy, there is a "Build Your Rifle" tab on the AR15 dotcom forum. Might be interesting.
124.) Floyd - 01/26/2014
It's pretty cool.
125.) Swamp Fox - 01/26/2014
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Thanks! I'll go look at that. [/COLOR]
[QUOTE=DParker;15436][url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm[/url]
1:7, which in reality is 1:7.7...close enough for government work and will properly stabilize at least down to 55 gr (and probably smaller as well if using something like Barnes' "Varmint Grenade"s). I'd hazard a guess that the odds of you wanting to use 30-50 gr loads are kinda' slim.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's a thought if that's the way it works out in the real world. But I doubt I would be shooting the heaviest/longest bullets, either. (Though I suppose there [I]is[/I] a better chance of [I]that[/I].) Here's a question: Why even bother making barrels 1:8 then, if the "coyote and all-around guys" might prefer 1:7 (+) and 1:9 is supposed to be so good/popular with some other segment, (maybe prairie doggers, I suppose).
My reply was really directed at Floyd's fluted barrel statement, though, because fluting seems ideal to me to "get between" a lightweight barrel and a standard barrel. And as I said earlier, if all a pencil barrel is going to save me is 4-6 oz. over a medium (standard), my prejudice is for the medium. Throw fluting in the mix and I'm intrigued.
[QUOTE=Floyd;15437]Don't be like the Scout kids a scout camp and reach for the heavy 20 gaug as opposed to the light weight one they shot.[/QUOTE]
I'll try not to go overboard on the heavy, just as I'm not going to go overboard on the light. If that's what you meant, LOL. If that's not what you meant, send me a decoder ring and let me get back to you. :-)
[QUOTE=Floyd;15438]Swampy, you know, a good sling will help with that light wieght rifle.
I guess you'll buy a carbon bow soon.[/QUOTE]
A good point re. the sling, as was DP's point about a vertical foregrip earlier, though I've never shot with one of those, so I'll have to take his word for it that it helps a feathery rifle.
I suspect my bows are a little on the heavy side compared to most and I don't see that changing a lot. I think, up to a point, I shoot a heavier bow better than a very light one, and if I ever get in really windy conditions again such as we've had in Jacksboro and I've seen in Nebraska, then a light bow is "Right out!"
You've probably got a photo of me strapped with my bow gear, ready to jump into Occupied France. [B]Add[/B] an AR to that picture in your imagination and you might understand why I am weighing the pros and cons of extra oh-zees, LOL.
[QUOTE=DParker;15436][url]http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm[/url]
1:7, which in reality is 1:7.7...close enough for government work and will properly stabilize at least down to 55 gr (and probably smaller as well if using something like Barnes' "Varmint Grenade"s). I'd hazard a guess that the odds of you wanting to use 30-50 gr loads are kinda' slim.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's a thought if that's the way it works out in the real world. But I doubt I would be shooting the heaviest/longest bullets, either. (Though I suppose there [I]is[/I] a better chance of [I]that[/I].) Here's a question: Why even bother making barrels 1:8 then, if the "coyote and all-around guys" might prefer 1:7 (+) and 1:9 is supposed to be so good/popular with some other segment, (maybe prairie doggers, I suppose).
My reply was really directed at Floyd's fluted barrel statement, though, because fluting seems ideal to me to "get between" a lightweight barrel and a standard barrel. And as I said earlier, if all a pencil barrel is going to save me is 4-6 oz. over a medium (standard), my prejudice is for the medium. Throw fluting in the mix and I'm intrigued.
[QUOTE=Floyd;15437]Don't be like the Scout kids a scout camp and reach for the heavy 20 gaug as opposed to the light weight one they shot.[/QUOTE]
I'll try not to go overboard on the heavy, just as I'm not going to go overboard on the light. If that's what you meant, LOL. If that's not what you meant, send me a decoder ring and let me get back to you. :-)
[QUOTE=Floyd;15438]Swampy, you know, a good sling will help with that light wieght rifle.
I guess you'll buy a carbon bow soon.[/QUOTE]
A good point re. the sling, as was DP's point about a vertical foregrip earlier, though I've never shot with one of those, so I'll have to take his word for it that it helps a feathery rifle.
I suspect my bows are a little on the heavy side compared to most and I don't see that changing a lot. I think, up to a point, I shoot a heavier bow better than a very light one, and if I ever get in really windy conditions again such as we've had in Jacksboro and I've seen in Nebraska, then a light bow is "Right out!"
You've probably got a photo of me strapped with my bow gear, ready to jump into Occupied France. [B]Add[/B] an AR to that picture in your imagination and you might understand why I am weighing the pros and cons of extra oh-zees, LOL.
126.) DParker - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15448]Well, that's a thought if that's the way it works out in the real world. But I doubt I would be shooting the heaviest/longest bullets, either. (Though I suppose there [I]is[/I] a better chance of [I]that[/I].) Here's a question: Why even bother making barrels 1:8 then, if the "coyote and all-around guys" might prefer 1:7 (+) and 1:9 is supposed to be so good/popular with some other segment, (maybe prairie doggers, I suppose).[/quote]
I'd say that 1:7 is geared more toward "coyotes and up" "coyotes and all-around" than. 1:9 isn't so much good/popular with another segment as it is common due to history. Why don't 1:8 barrels dominate, given that they'll stabilize just about anything? I've often asked that question myself, but have yet to get any sort of plausible answer from those who are otherwise "in the know".
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15448]My reply was really directed at Floyd's fluted barrel statement, though, because fluting seems ideal to me to "get between" a lightweight barrel and a standard barrel. And as I said earlier, if all a pencil barrel is going to save me is 4-6 oz. over a medium (standard), my prejudice is for the medium. Throw fluting in the mix and I'm intrigued.[/quote]
And fluting a heavy profile will work just as well in terms of weight reduction. It's just a more expensive solution due to the extra machining that's required. On the other hand, it does look a little cooler...at least, what you can see of it outside of the hand guard.
I'd say that 1:7 is geared more toward "coyotes and up" "coyotes and all-around" than. 1:9 isn't so much good/popular with another segment as it is common due to history. Why don't 1:8 barrels dominate, given that they'll stabilize just about anything? I've often asked that question myself, but have yet to get any sort of plausible answer from those who are otherwise "in the know".
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15448]My reply was really directed at Floyd's fluted barrel statement, though, because fluting seems ideal to me to "get between" a lightweight barrel and a standard barrel. And as I said earlier, if all a pencil barrel is going to save me is 4-6 oz. over a medium (standard), my prejudice is for the medium. Throw fluting in the mix and I'm intrigued.[/quote]
And fluting a heavy profile will work just as well in terms of weight reduction. It's just a more expensive solution due to the extra machining that's required. On the other hand, it does look a little cooler...at least, what you can see of it outside of the hand guard.
127.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
No decoder ring needed DSwampy (in reference to your new found quoting skills).
Eat your Wheaties, drink your Ovaltine and do a view Calisthenics in the morning. Then, that 8lbs or so AR won't hurt you so much to lug around. Use it often and you will get used to any weight it might come out to after you build it.
Eat your Wheaties, drink your Ovaltine and do a view Calisthenics in the morning. Then, that 8lbs or so AR won't hurt you so much to lug around. Use it often and you will get used to any weight it might come out to after you build it.
128.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
I just build a 7.67 lbs rifle on the AR15 forum rifle build program.
I'm actually bummed because some of the things I was looking for where not offered as options in the program. Meaning, I didn't get to build the AR I was looking for.
I'm actually bummed because some of the things I was looking for where not offered as options in the program. Meaning, I didn't get to build the AR I was looking for.
129.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
LOL...I can quote separate posts just fine...I need a shortcut to multi-quoting one single post, though.
DP, points taken. It seems to me that "on paper" 1:8 would be ideal (especially for me).
Floyd, that is a great point about getting used to any rifle you have to work with. My 8 # benchmark is based on my experience with bolts actions and I think I've always said to myself that if I couldn't get an AR to be "noticeably" lighter than my lightest of those, there really wasn't that much point in me putting money toward an AR (other than the obvious fact that you can never have too many guns :-)). I don't [I]need[/I] a semi rifle that badly for what I want to do, especially considering the money I'd wind up putting toward an AR once I got a head of steam, LOL.
I couldn't get that AR-build program to run on this machine. It keeps aborting the player install for some reason. At one point I had an option to do a manual install come up, but that has disappeared and I can't seem to get it back.
Oh well. I'll keep trying. It would be neat to see the weights of the pieces-parts without wandering all over the internet looking at specs.
DP, points taken. It seems to me that "on paper" 1:8 would be ideal (especially for me).
Floyd, that is a great point about getting used to any rifle you have to work with. My 8 # benchmark is based on my experience with bolts actions and I think I've always said to myself that if I couldn't get an AR to be "noticeably" lighter than my lightest of those, there really wasn't that much point in me putting money toward an AR (other than the obvious fact that you can never have too many guns :-)). I don't [I]need[/I] a semi rifle that badly for what I want to do, especially considering the money I'd wind up putting toward an AR once I got a head of steam, LOL.
I couldn't get that AR-build program to run on this machine. It keeps aborting the player install for some reason. At one point I had an option to do a manual install come up, but that has disappeared and I can't seem to get it back.
Oh well. I'll keep trying. It would be neat to see the weights of the pieces-parts without wandering all over the internet looking at specs.
130.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
You could get one custom made by this guys. [url]http://ar15barrels.com[/url]
[url]http://ar15barrels.com/prod/lw.shtml[/url]
[url]http://ar15barrels.com/prod/lw.shtml[/url]
131.) DParker - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15452]I don't [B][COLOR="#FF0000"][I]need[/I][/COLOR][/B] a semi rifle that badly for what I want to do, especially considering the money I'd wind up putting toward an AR once I got a head of steam, LOL.[/QUOTE]
"Need"? "NEED"?!!! This is black rifle disease we're talkin' about here, man. What the hell has [I]"need"[/I] got to do with anything?!!!! :-)
I'm seriously questioning your motivation and commitment here. :tap:
"Need"? "NEED"?!!! This is black rifle disease we're talkin' about here, man. What the hell has [I]"need"[/I] got to do with anything?!!!! :-)
I'm seriously questioning your motivation and commitment here. :tap:
132.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15449]And fluting a heavy profile will work just as well in terms of weight reduction. It's just a more expensive solution due to the extra machining that's required. On the other hand, it does look a little cooler...at least, what you can see of it outside of the hand guard.[/QUOTE]
I've also always been under the impression that fluted barrels are somewhat more rigid than their "competition." Whether barrel cooling is enhanced by fluting I am willing to be neutral on (and I have had enough light sporter barrels shift POI after relatively few rounds to be conscious of this, your earlier point about .223 ammo duly noted).
I've also always been under the impression that fluted barrels are somewhat more rigid than their "competition." Whether barrel cooling is enhanced by fluting I am willing to be neutral on (and I have had enough light sporter barrels shift POI after relatively few rounds to be conscious of this, your earlier point about .223 ammo duly noted).
133.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15452]Oh well. I'll keep trying. It would be neat to see the weights of the pieces-parts without wandering all over the internet looking at specs.[/QUOTE]
It will be easier than you think. Mine are at 8.2 and 8.4 with optics.
It will be easier than you think. Mine are at 8.2 and 8.4 with optics.
134.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15454]"Need"? "NEED"?!!! This is black rifle disease we're talkin' about here, man. What the hell has [I]"need"[/I] got to do with anything?!!!! :-)
I'm seriously questioning your motivation and commitment here. :tap:[/QUOTE]
Will it make you feel better if I assure you that this whole thing is not merely an academic exercise? :-)
I'm seriously questioning your motivation and commitment here. :tap:[/QUOTE]
Will it make you feel better if I assure you that this whole thing is not merely an academic exercise? :-)
135.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
Until we see action, it's all words.
136.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15456]It will be easier than you think. Mine are at 8.2 and 8.4 with optics.[/QUOTE]
Yes. This is what I'm finding out after digging deeper recently. In the past I was taking the more common middle of the road off-the-shelf rifles as my guide and not doing much research on builds. I think Larue makes a six and a half pounder, give or take, but it's pricey. :-)
Yes. This is what I'm finding out after digging deeper recently. In the past I was taking the more common middle of the road off-the-shelf rifles as my guide and not doing much research on builds. I think Larue makes a six and a half pounder, give or take, but it's pricey. :-)
137.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15458]Until we see action, it's all words.[/QUOTE]
Nothing like being shamed into buying a rifle to keep cyberspace in alignment,, LOL...
:tu:
Nothing like being shamed into buying a rifle to keep cyberspace in alignment,, LOL...
:tu:
138.) DParker - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15457]Will it make you feel better if I assure you that this whole thing is not merely an academic exercise? :-)[/QUOTE]
"Trust, but verify".
"Pics or it didn't happen."
Etc, etc.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15459]Yes. This is what I'm finding out after digging deeper recently. In the past I was taking the more common middle of the road off-the-shelf rifles as my guide and not doing much research on builds. I think Larue makes a six and a half pounder, give or take, but it's pricey. :-)[/QUOTE]
Check your thesaurus and you'll find "Larue" as a synonym for "pricey".
"Trust, but verify".
"Pics or it didn't happen."
Etc, etc.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15459]Yes. This is what I'm finding out after digging deeper recently. In the past I was taking the more common middle of the road off-the-shelf rifles as my guide and not doing much research on builds. I think Larue makes a six and a half pounder, give or take, but it's pricey. :-)[/QUOTE]
Check your thesaurus and you'll find "Larue" as a synonym for "pricey".
139.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
Well, getting a hat and an armadillo bottle-opener is tempting...LOL
140.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
Shamed? Shamed is you highjacking poor AR-minks thread.
141.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
142.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
I've been searching since you started this mess you made. There are some very cool builds out there. I even came across one that is building a "Storm Trooper" AR. All white. With a very cool flash hider.
143.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
LOL...I'd like to see that.
Did you know that the term "Lock and Load" is uttered by some stormship trooper in one of the Star Wars movies? I thought those phasers or whatever they are were some kind of energy weapon...
I never noticed if they had a bayonet lug...
Did you know that the term "Lock and Load" is uttered by some stormship trooper in one of the Star Wars movies? I thought those phasers or whatever they are were some kind of energy weapon...
I never noticed if they had a bayonet lug...
144.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
You goober, they are commonly called "blasters". You have the lock and load the energy cells. Everyone knows that.
145.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
See, that's why I'm on the internet...
There's so much I need to learn.
I just hope my head doesn't explode from all the knowledge.
:grin:
There's so much I need to learn.
I just hope my head doesn't explode from all the knowledge.
:grin:
146.) DParker - 01/27/2014
Han Solo's blaster was actually just a slightly dressed up broom handle Mauser. ..
147.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
Wow! :tu:
Do you know the story on that pistol?
Do you know the story on that pistol?
148.) Ar-mink - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15463]Shamed? Shamed is you highjacking poor AR-minks thread.[/QUOTE]
I was going to say it's ok atleast they're semi on topic, then I read on and it somehow switched over to storm troopers...
I was going to say it's ok atleast they're semi on topic, then I read on and it somehow switched over to storm troopers...
149.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
Yeah, I mention someone building a storm trooper AR and they derailed.
I am waiting for the story though.
I am waiting for the story though.
150.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15476]Yeah, I mention someone building a storm trooper AR and they derailed.
[/QUOTE]
They? [I]They[/I]??
Who is this "they" of whom you speak, kemosabe?
:shocked::shh::laugh:
[/QUOTE]
They? [I]They[/I]??
Who is this "they" of whom you speak, kemosabe?
:shocked::shh::laugh:
151.) Ar-mink - 01/27/2014
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/2382CB5C-0986-4C50-9A79-037D80C5FBCA_zpsemhsj25z.jpg.html]
[/URL]
A little google magic
[/URL]A little google magic
152.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
Nope, not it. The lower was white as well. And the muzzle flash hider/brake was slanted.
153.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15478]They? [I]They[/I]??
Who is this "they" of whom you speak, kemosabe?
:shocked::shh::laugh:[/QUOTE]
You aren't fooling anyone. Everybody can read. Nice try though.
Who is this "they" of whom you speak, kemosabe?
:shocked::shh::laugh:[/QUOTE]
You aren't fooling anyone. Everybody can read. Nice try though.
154.) Floyd - 01/27/2014
AR-mink, here's the link to the Storm Trooper [COLOR="#0000FF"]AR build[/COLOR] I was talking about. I can't wait until he finishes it.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/635656_Storm_Trooper_Build.html[/url]
(I highlighted AR build so Swampy understands I am still taking about ARs)
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/635656_Storm_Trooper_Build.html[/url]
(I highlighted AR build so Swampy understands I am still taking about ARs)
155.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
LOL...
:bad:
:bad:
156.) DParker - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15472]Wow! :tu:
Do you know the story on that pistol?[/QUOTE]
That depends. Which story?
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15475]I was going to say it's ok atleast they're semi on topic, then I read on and it somehow switched over to storm troopers...[/QUOTE]
Oh, they're related. Right after the antis grab your high-capacity military styled baby harp seal clubbing "assault weapons" they're coming after your light sabers and laser blasters, which are your only defense against sand people and jet pack wearing bounty hunters. Mark my words. Molon labe, and all that jazz.
OK, OK...
If you plan on mounting a scope on your AR you're also going to want to consider replacing the standard latch on the charging handle with one of several enlarged "tactical" versions available, as a properly mounted scope can make the regular latch difficult to get a hold on, especially if you're wearing gloves. They're quite cheap, and a worthwhile mod even if you don't mount a scope.
Do you know the story on that pistol?[/QUOTE]
That depends. Which story?
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15475]I was going to say it's ok atleast they're semi on topic, then I read on and it somehow switched over to storm troopers...[/QUOTE]
Oh, they're related. Right after the antis grab your high-capacity military styled baby harp seal clubbing "assault weapons" they're coming after your light sabers and laser blasters, which are your only defense against sand people and jet pack wearing bounty hunters. Mark my words. Molon labe, and all that jazz.
OK, OK...
If you plan on mounting a scope on your AR you're also going to want to consider replacing the standard latch on the charging handle with one of several enlarged "tactical" versions available, as a properly mounted scope can make the regular latch difficult to get a hold on, especially if you're wearing gloves. They're quite cheap, and a worthwhile mod even if you don't mount a scope.
157.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15484]That depends. Which story?
[/QUOTE]
Well, I know a little about the broomhandle so I was thinking about the story behind rigging it that way, if not a story about what that pistol has seen in its young life. Looks like it might have been dreamt up by an assassination squad. :pop:
But...[I]Cave Floydem[/I]* :wink
*"Beware the Floyd"---Latin, found inscribed on a gate at Pompeii.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I know a little about the broomhandle so I was thinking about the story behind rigging it that way, if not a story about what that pistol has seen in its young life. Looks like it might have been dreamt up by an assassination squad. :pop:
But...[I]Cave Floydem[/I]* :wink
*"Beware the Floyd"---Latin, found inscribed on a gate at Pompeii.
158.) DParker - 01/27/2014
Here you go.
[url]http://www.guns.com/2012/09/17/gun-review-dl-44-blastech-blaster-pistol/[/url]
[url]http://www.guns.com/2012/09/17/gun-review-dl-44-blastech-blaster-pistol/[/url]
159.) Swamp Fox - 01/27/2014
Awwww, rats!...I was hoping for some connection to Archduke Ferdinand or sumpn...:tap::rage::ban:
:p
:p
160.) Ventilator - 01/27/2014
[URL=http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/kenholl1/media/varmintrig.jpg.html]
[/URL]
Here is my custom build.
As pictured:
Stag Lower
Veltor Adjustable Stock
Yankee Hill Upper .223 Fluted barrel 1:9 twist
Yankee Hill front bipod/sling mount
Yankee Hill full length rail
O-Light (left side) 200 Lumens
Simmons 2x10x40mm scope
Yankee Hill 45* rail mount with Browning reflex sight (bushnell pictured)
I have since added front rail grip.
[/URL]Here is my custom build.
As pictured:
Stag Lower
Veltor Adjustable Stock
Yankee Hill Upper .223 Fluted barrel 1:9 twist
Yankee Hill front bipod/sling mount
Yankee Hill full length rail
O-Light (left side) 200 Lumens
Simmons 2x10x40mm scope
Yankee Hill 45* rail mount with Browning reflex sight (bushnell pictured)
I have since added front rail grip.
161.) Floyd - 01/28/2014
I'm toying with the idea of a SBR/SPR in 300 Blackout.
162.) DParker - 01/28/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15581]I'm toying with the idea of a SBR/SPR in 300 Blackout.[/QUOTE]
If you plan on actually shooting it then you should also consider taking up reloading. .300 AAC BLK is one of the cartridges that is very difficult to find in stock due to its current trendiness, and what you can find is ridiculously expensive...like $1.40-$2.15 / round ridiculous. And even the stuff that's perpetually backordered is running about $0.90 / rd at the cheapest (that I've found, anyway).
If you plan on actually shooting it then you should also consider taking up reloading. .300 AAC BLK is one of the cartridges that is very difficult to find in stock due to its current trendiness, and what you can find is ridiculously expensive...like $1.40-$2.15 / round ridiculous. And even the stuff that's perpetually backordered is running about $0.90 / rd at the cheapest (that I've found, anyway).
163.) Floyd - 01/28/2014
I reload. [url]http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/300blackout/[/url]
I also know a friend and a friend of a friend. Who knew a friend of his friend's friend.
I also know a friend and a friend of a friend. Who knew a friend of his friend's friend.
164.) DParker - 01/28/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15584]I reload.[/quote]
Ah, OK...I forgot that, having failed to recall the 300 BLK thread you started in the Reloading forum back in March of last year.
[QUOTE=Floyd;15584][url]http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/300blackout/[/url][/QUOTE]
So what you can find will cost you anywhere from $27 to > $80 to blow through one 30-rd mag. Fun.
Ah, OK...I forgot that, having failed to recall the 300 BLK thread you started in the Reloading forum back in March of last year.
[QUOTE=Floyd;15584][url]http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/300blackout/[/url][/QUOTE]
So what you can find will cost you anywhere from $27 to > $80 to blow through one 30-rd mag. Fun.
165.) Floyd - 01/28/2014
Blow through? Like mindlessly shooting in the air during a Iraq wedding procession?
166.) DParker - 01/28/2014
No. Like punching a bunch of holes in a defenseless sheet of paper you've stapled to a target backstop as a warning to other sheets of paper that would cross you.
167.) Floyd - 01/28/2014
Poor DParker and his paper targets. I'd like to say I blow through steel targets, but that doesn't make sense. I got it. I like to blow through ammo using reactive targets. Those little knock down, pop up prairie dogs are nice to hit 200 yards and out.
168.) Floyd - 01/28/2014
I jest. My intentions is not to blow through ammo with the 300BO.
169.) Ar-mink - 01/28/2014
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/00715E21-97CF-4F41-A533-D89AAE31C25C_zpscmqdanw6.png.html]
[/URL]
Talk about an AR on a budget. I don't know much about the different AR brands but I can't see this being a quality piece.
[/URL]Talk about an AR on a budget. I don't know much about the different AR brands but I can't see this being a quality piece.
170.) DParker - 01/28/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;15600]http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/00715E21-97CF-4F41-A533-D89AAE31C25C_zpscmqdanw6.png.html
Talk about an AR on a budget. I don't know much about the different AR brands but I can't see this being a quality piece.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the lower receiver is polymer. The barrel isn't chrome-lined. Reading feedback on the upper it sounds like the finish is pretty rough on them.
That said, most of the feedback also indicates that the upper seems to be functional. To what degree of reliability, it's hard to say. Everything I've read is of the "I just built it and have put a few rounds through it" variety.
I'm not opposed to a bargain at all, but I'm inherently suspicious of a complete upper assembly with bolt carrier group AND charging handle that sells for slightly less than Bravo Company's bottom-of-the-line stripped barrel.
Talk about an AR on a budget. I don't know much about the different AR brands but I can't see this being a quality piece.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the lower receiver is polymer. The barrel isn't chrome-lined. Reading feedback on the upper it sounds like the finish is pretty rough on them.
That said, most of the feedback also indicates that the upper seems to be functional. To what degree of reliability, it's hard to say. Everything I've read is of the "I just built it and have put a few rounds through it" variety.
I'm not opposed to a bargain at all, but I'm inherently suspicious of a complete upper assembly with bolt carrier group AND charging handle that sells for slightly less than Bravo Company's bottom-of-the-line stripped barrel.
171.) Swamp Fox - 01/28/2014
Man, I wish I knew where there were some steel targets around here. Even the one place I could get a 300 set-up doesn't have them, I don't think. You'd think if they had 300 yards, they'd have steel targets.
Oh, well. Back and forth to check paper on the 100 and 200 yarders is good exercise, I guess.
Oh, well. Back and forth to check paper on the 100 and 200 yarders is good exercise, I guess.
172.) OKY - 01/29/2014
Swampy. I have made my own pistol targets from 1/4" plate steel. If you are going to shoot high velocity rifle rounds, you better find some AR500 steel.
173.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
What happened to shooting at old tractors and road signs? I thought that's how you people rolled over there...
:wink
:wink
174.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
Stag makes a quality lower kit with stock. Here is a link. I have shot a few 1000 rds thru mine with very few issues. When it was new, it would jam occassionally with wolf ammo. Since i quit using that chit, it functions flawless. That was more of an issue with the upper anyway i think.
[url]https://www.stagarms.com/ar15-lower-halves-receivers-main/[/url]
[url]https://www.stagarms.com/ar15-lower-halves-receivers-main/[/url]
175.) DParker - 01/29/2014
Stag makes good stuff in general, but IMO $300 is way too much to spend for what is ultimately a functionally average lower just to save yourself from an easy assembly job, especially when you're probably going to want to upgrade the trigger...at a minimum...and likely the grip and stock as well. Stag let's you upgrade to a 2-stage trigger (though they don't tell you which one) and a Magpul MOE grip with a final price of $401. But you can easily put together something better for less money with the following parts. Except for the lower receiver, which I priced at Brownell's, I used [url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/[/url] as my pricing source, as I've had good experiences ordering from them before and their prices are very competitive (all prices rounded up to the nearest whole $):
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][center][b]Part[/b][/center][/td]
\t[td][center][b]Cost[/b][/center][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Spike's Tactical Stripped Lower[/td]
\t[td][right]$100[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lower Parts Kit w/o Trigger[/td]
\t[td][right]$32[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Rock River Arms NM 2-State Trigger[/td]
\t[td][right]$100[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Magpul MOE Grip[/td]
\t[td][right]$20[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Mil-Spec Stock Mounting Parts Kit[/td]
\t[td][right]$40[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Magpul MOE Mil-Spec Stock[/td]
\t[td][right]$55[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][right][b]Total =[/right][/b][/td]
\t[td][right][b]$347[/right][/b][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
[/INDENT]
So you end up with a lower with a better stock for $54 less. And if you'd started out with the Stag complete lower without any of the upgrade options, and then added them yourself later, after the fact, your total cost would have been $475.
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][center][b]Part[/b][/center][/td]
\t[td][center][b]Cost[/b][/center][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Spike's Tactical Stripped Lower[/td]
\t[td][right]$100[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lower Parts Kit w/o Trigger[/td]
\t[td][right]$32[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Rock River Arms NM 2-State Trigger[/td]
\t[td][right]$100[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Magpul MOE Grip[/td]
\t[td][right]$20[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Mil-Spec Stock Mounting Parts Kit[/td]
\t[td][right]$40[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Magpul MOE Mil-Spec Stock[/td]
\t[td][right]$55[/right][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][right][b]Total =[/right][/b][/td]
\t[td][right][b]$347[/right][/b][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
[/INDENT]
So you end up with a lower with a better stock for $54 less. And if you'd started out with the Stag complete lower without any of the upgrade options, and then added them yourself later, after the fact, your total cost would have been $475.
176.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
Good call DP :tu:
177.) DParker - 01/29/2014
I can't believe I didn't point this out earlier, but in addition to saving money while still getting exactly what you want, one of the significant benefits of assembling an AR yourself (at least the lower) is that you get a much better understanding of what's inside and how everything works, which makes it easier to diagnose problems and/or do your own maintenance/modifications later on down the road.
178.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
Not to mention the excitement of opening up the delivery boxes. The anticipation of putting it together, the fun of working on it, and the amazement that it works when it all put together.
The thrill of victory!
The thrill of victory!
179.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15684]Not to mention the excitement of opening up the delivery boxes. The anticipation of putting it together, the fun of working on it, and the amazement that it works when it all put together.
The thrill of victory![/QUOTE]
Yeah, if I'm being honest here, I was pretty much like a giddy little kid everytime UPS/USPS/FedEx showed up at the door. And having the finished product reliably go *bang* everytime while simultaneously not blowing up in your face [I]does[/I] give you something of a sense of accomplishment.
The thrill of victory![/QUOTE]
Yeah, if I'm being honest here, I was pretty much like a giddy little kid everytime UPS/USPS/FedEx showed up at the door. And having the finished product reliably go *bang* everytime while simultaneously not blowing up in your face [I]does[/I] give you something of a sense of accomplishment.
180.) Jon - 01/29/2014
There's so much truth in the fact that building something yourself gives you so much more pride in ownership and operation of said item. Knowing the inner workings of the rifle, especially since the AR platform is so simply built that even a caveman can do it makes it really easy to be a master. Plus, cleaning the thing down to the very last part and putting it all back together in a few minutes makes it all more fun.
Good parts list DP. Including a RRA 2 stage trigger group in any build is the best upgrade anyone can do. If you want to look deeper, you'll be able to save a few more bucks but one stop shopping is a plus since that box might come all at once with one delivery truck.
Good parts list DP. Including a RRA 2 stage trigger group in any build is the best upgrade anyone can do. If you want to look deeper, you'll be able to save a few more bucks but one stop shopping is a plus since that box might come all at once with one delivery truck.
181.) DParker - 01/29/2014
In fact I'd recommend using $6 of the do-it-yourself money you save and ordering a spring replacement kit just so you'll have spares, which is especially handy if you end up losing one during assembly.
182.) Jon - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15698]In fact I'd recommend using $6 of the do-it-yourself money you save and ordering a spring replacement kit just so you'll have spares, which is especially handy if you end up losing one during assembly.[/QUOTE]
Because YOU WILL
Because YOU WILL
183.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
What's the difference between a Spike's stripped lower and one from Rock River, say, or another good mfgr?
Say you get all the parts as above to put one together vs. buying an assembly where you like everything for $375-400 (best guess): How much time is involved in putting it together? Assume springs are easily recovered from under the couch. LOL..
Say you get all the parts as above to put one together vs. buying an assembly where you like everything for $375-400 (best guess): How much time is involved in putting it together? Assume springs are easily recovered from under the couch. LOL..
184.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15700]Because YOU WILL[/QUOTE]
I launched a detent spring a couple of times, but luckily I had opted to do my assembly on the dining room table, where we have hardwood floors...so the spring was easy to find both times.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15702]What's the difference between a Spike's stripped lower and one from Rock River, say, or another good mfgr?[/quote]
Honestly? The name/designed stamped on the side and anywhere from $10-$50 in cost (unless you start getting into wastes of money like billet lowers). I'm not aware of any significant quality or mil-spec compliance issues among any of the well-known manufacturers (and there aren't that many, with many sellers simply re-branding lowers with their own name).
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15702]Say you get all the parts as above to put one together vs. buying an assembly where you like everything for $375-400 (best guess): How much time is involved in putting it together? Assume springs are easily recovered from under the couch. LOL..[/QUOTE]
If you're organized and disciplined with your work surface and have pretty decent manual dexterity, probably about an hour. Otherwise, add 30 minutes and a fair amount of cussing.
I launched a detent spring a couple of times, but luckily I had opted to do my assembly on the dining room table, where we have hardwood floors...so the spring was easy to find both times.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15702]What's the difference between a Spike's stripped lower and one from Rock River, say, or another good mfgr?[/quote]
Honestly? The name/designed stamped on the side and anywhere from $10-$50 in cost (unless you start getting into wastes of money like billet lowers). I'm not aware of any significant quality or mil-spec compliance issues among any of the well-known manufacturers (and there aren't that many, with many sellers simply re-branding lowers with their own name).
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15702]Say you get all the parts as above to put one together vs. buying an assembly where you like everything for $375-400 (best guess): How much time is involved in putting it together? Assume springs are easily recovered from under the couch. LOL..[/QUOTE]
If you're organized and disciplined with your work surface and have pretty decent manual dexterity, probably about an hour. Otherwise, add 30 minutes and a fair amount of cussing.
185.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
Thanks! That's kinda what I figured. What about finishes? Is that an area where some are better than others?
I know some of the higher end rifles or assemblies get reviews for "outstanding fit and finish." I assume good fit is not really a major accomplishment when you are dealing with spec parts/assemblies?
I know some of the higher end rifles or assemblies get reviews for "outstanding fit and finish." I assume good fit is not really a major accomplishment when you are dealing with spec parts/assemblies?
186.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15708]Thanks! That's kinda what I figured. What about finishes? Is that an area where some are better than others?[/QUOTE]
In terms of objective quality? Not that I've seen. In terms of aesthetics? Sure, but that's purely subjective.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15708]I know some of the higher end rifles or assemblies get reviews for "outstanding fit and finish." I assume good fit is not really a major accomplishment when you are dealing with spec parts/assemblies?[/QUOTE]
Even with mil-spec parts you can sometimes end up with some small amount of play in between the upper and lower receivers. This rarely has any impact on functionality (except in extreme cases, when something is seriously out of spec), but can be annoying nonetheless. Fortunately there are ready-made solutions for the problem, like the "Accu-Wedge": [URL="http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/receiver-hardware/accu-wedges/ar-15-m16-accu-wedge-prod16662.aspx"]http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/receiver-hardware/accu-wedges/ar-15-m16-accu-wedge-prod16662.aspx[/URL]
The claim that the wedge increases accuracy of the firearm is dubious, but by all accounts it does a good job of eliminating the slop.
In terms of objective quality? Not that I've seen. In terms of aesthetics? Sure, but that's purely subjective.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15708]I know some of the higher end rifles or assemblies get reviews for "outstanding fit and finish." I assume good fit is not really a major accomplishment when you are dealing with spec parts/assemblies?[/QUOTE]
Even with mil-spec parts you can sometimes end up with some small amount of play in between the upper and lower receivers. This rarely has any impact on functionality (except in extreme cases, when something is seriously out of spec), but can be annoying nonetheless. Fortunately there are ready-made solutions for the problem, like the "Accu-Wedge": [URL="http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/receiver-hardware/accu-wedges/ar-15-m16-accu-wedge-prod16662.aspx"]http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/receiver-hardware/accu-wedges/ar-15-m16-accu-wedge-prod16662.aspx[/URL]
The claim that the wedge increases accuracy of the firearm is dubious, but by all accounts it does a good job of eliminating the slop.
187.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
:tu:...
188.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
Good points DP. If you saw my build, I have a Vltor stock/buffer tube on my Stag lower. I bought the lower without the stock as i knew i wanted to replace it. Vltor has a great feel an has two storage compartments for batteries or whatever.
My Ambush 6.8, was a complete rifle. Daniel Defense makes everything awesome, IMO. The trigger is even kickass from the factory. With my YH .223 upper , it has a completely different feel than the stag. Much better and it seems my groups are tighter as well. Just an all round awesome firearm.
My Ambush 6.8, was a complete rifle. Daniel Defense makes everything awesome, IMO. The trigger is even kickass from the factory. With my YH .223 upper , it has a completely different feel than the stag. Much better and it seems my groups are tighter as well. Just an all round awesome firearm.
189.) Jon - 01/29/2014
Lowers are all the same as long as they are mil spec and not polymer or billet. It doesn't matter who's name is on the darn thing, they are all the same.
VLTOR makes incredibly good stuff all around as does Daniel Defense. Two stage triggers from DD and RRA are the same thing, I bought one from each and they actually came in the same bag with the same sticker on the thing and they both are top notch.
I now see companies who do custom engraving on lowers which is cool.
VLTOR makes incredibly good stuff all around as does Daniel Defense. Two stage triggers from DD and RRA are the same thing, I bought one from each and they actually came in the same bag with the same sticker on the thing and they both are top notch.
I now see companies who do custom engraving on lowers which is cool.
190.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15722].
I now see companies who do custom engraving on lowers which is cool.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I was just thinking about that and whether anyone did it. Don't ask me what I thought about engraving on mine, though. It was more than an hour ago. :tap: But it was funny. :-) To me at least, LOL. ---Maybe a puddy tat...:p
I now see companies who do custom engraving on lowers which is cool.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I was just thinking about that and whether anyone did it. Don't ask me what I thought about engraving on mine, though. It was more than an hour ago. :tap: But it was funny. :-) To me at least, LOL. ---Maybe a puddy tat...:p
191.) DParker - 01/29/2014
Here's what you really want. Note the labeling of the fire selector switch settings.
192.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
You can take your current lower and get it engraved. Painted. Spray can painted, hydro dipped, anything, anyway you want it.
193.) Jon - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15730]Here's what you really want. Note the labeling of the fire selector switch settings.
[/QUOTE]
Serial number pew00001
[/QUOTE]Serial number pew00001
194.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
Behold:
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 5.56
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url]
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 5.56
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url]
195.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
Mine is The baddest AR in existence today!
196.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
sorry Floyd,
As bad as yours may be, it doesnt compete with the one from Arsenal Democracy. Check it out. The gas block is tuned so well that the barrel barely moves at all on rapid fire.
Incredible!
As bad as yours may be, it doesnt compete with the one from Arsenal Democracy. Check it out. The gas block is tuned so well that the barrel barely moves at all on rapid fire.
Incredible!
197.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
No. Wrong. And don't care.
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Thou shalt not covet
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Thou shalt not covet
198.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
[URL=http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/kenholl1/media/reaper33_zpscfead706.jpg.html]
[/URL]
Reaper 33 -Kryptek
[/URL]Reaper 33 -Kryptek
199.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;15734]Behold:
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 [COLOR="#FF0000"].223 Wylde[/COLOR]
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url][/QUOTE]
(fixed)
also
1:8 wow But it is nice.
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 [COLOR="#FF0000"].223 Wylde[/COLOR]
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url][/QUOTE]
(fixed)
also
1:8 wow But it is nice.
200.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
You are correct on the .223 WYLDE ,
I missed that part at first.
I missed that part at first.
201.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
"Go ahead and insult me, but don't insult my dog..." :wink
I don't know who said that first, LOL.
Floyd, would you choose 1:7 over 1:8 or are you just surprised it's made standard in 1:8?
And what's in that drum?
I don't know who said that first, LOL.
Floyd, would you choose 1:7 over 1:8 or are you just surprised it's made standard in 1:8?
And what's in that drum?
202.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
IMO 1:8 is very impressive for accuracy.
Also, an unknown amount of .223 ammo can be crammed in that drum. Im guessing 50, but ive not seen one like it before.
AD claims "sniper-rifle" accuracy on this one standard.
Also, an unknown amount of .223 ammo can be crammed in that drum. Im guessing 50, but ive not seen one like it before.
AD claims "sniper-rifle" accuracy on this one standard.
203.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15742]"Go ahead and insult me, but don't insult my dog..." :wink
I don't know who said that first, LOL.
Floyd, would you choose 1:7 over 1:8 or are you just surprised it's made standard in 1:8?
And what's in that drum?[/QUOTE]
What's in the drum? I'm thinking nasty little cat pellets.
1:7 or 1:8? I'm thinking what was said before and...220/221 what ever it takes. Some get hung up on this issue and some get down right crazy when it comes to mil spec and 1:7. COLT BABY COLT is the industry standard banner cry.
I love marketing. But, I don't think I would like a big "Arsenal Democracy" on my upper. I don't think I would even want "Arsenal Republic" either.
Pretty rifle though, but not the end all be all; I'm thinking.
Let's see if people built their own copy of this new rifle.
I don't know who said that first, LOL.
Floyd, would you choose 1:7 over 1:8 or are you just surprised it's made standard in 1:8?
And what's in that drum?[/QUOTE]
What's in the drum? I'm thinking nasty little cat pellets.
1:7 or 1:8? I'm thinking what was said before and...220/221 what ever it takes. Some get hung up on this issue and some get down right crazy when it comes to mil spec and 1:7. COLT BABY COLT is the industry standard banner cry.
I love marketing. But, I don't think I would like a big "Arsenal Democracy" on my upper. I don't think I would even want "Arsenal Republic" either.
Pretty rifle though, but not the end all be all; I'm thinking.
Let's see if people built their own copy of this new rifle.
204.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;15743]IMO 1:8 is very impressive for accuracy.[/QUOTE]
A 1:8 twist rate does not lead to improved accuracy unless you're comparing it with shooting extremely light (short) bullets through a 1:7 barrel, or shooting extremely heavy (long) bullets through a 1:9 barrel, because those two extreme mismatches can (and often do) produce under/over stabilization. If your 1:7/1:9 barrel is able to correctly stabilize the bullets you're putting through it, a 1:8 barrel isn't going to have any inherent advantage over it. In fact the opposite is likely to be at least somewhat true at the extreme ends of the bullet length spectrum.
A 1:8 twist rate does not lead to improved accuracy unless you're comparing it with shooting extremely light (short) bullets through a 1:7 barrel, or shooting extremely heavy (long) bullets through a 1:9 barrel, because those two extreme mismatches can (and often do) produce under/over stabilization. If your 1:7/1:9 barrel is able to correctly stabilize the bullets you're putting through it, a 1:8 barrel isn't going to have any inherent advantage over it. In fact the opposite is likely to be at least somewhat true at the extreme ends of the bullet length spectrum.
205.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
I'm surprised at the number of people building their own copy of the USN MK 12 Special Purpose rifle. And even more people since Lone Survivor came out.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_12_Special_Purpose_Rifle[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_12_Special_Purpose_Rifle[/url]
206.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
I was basing it on the target AR my friends son uses for Junior competition. It is 1:8 and is slinging match grade ammo at 300/600yds VERY impressively. I have a 1:9 barrel and honestly doubt i could find a difference as you say.
My friend ,however, has supposedly tried them all and arrived at the 1:8. His son finishes well, although , im sure skill is the main reason.
My friend ,however, has supposedly tried them all and arrived at the 1:8. His son finishes well, although , im sure skill is the main reason.
207.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
Floyd, is that the flash hider you were talking about the other day in that Wiki pic?
208.) Ventilator - 01/29/2014
NRA NATIONAL HIGH POWER COMP CAMP PERRY
Jason won his division
National Service Rifle Championship
•First Place: Staff Sergeant Tyrel Cooper, USA, Coulterville, CA, 2377-105x
•Second Place: Staff Sergeant Leigh R. Jenks III, ANG, 2369-102x
•Third Place: Sergeant Gus K. Dunfey, USA, 2369-100x
•High Woman: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High Senior: George Morgan, 2322-69x
•High Grand Senior: Jimmy C. Hinton, 2245-47x
•High Collegiate: James H. MacMillan, 2294-56x
•High Overall Junior: Christopher L. Calumpong, 2346-86x
•High Junior: Christopher L. Calumpong, 2346-86x
•High Intermediate Junior: Joseph W. Hendricks, 2324-72x
****•High Sub-Junior: Jason Williams, 2305-53x
•High Police: Master Sergeant Edward Altmeyer, ANG, 2302-55x
•High Civilian: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High Ohio Civilian Resident: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High National Guard: Staff Sergeant Leigh R. Jenks III, ANG, 2369-102x
•High Reserve: Captain Samuel K. Freeman, USAR, 2359-100x
•High Army Reserve: Captain Samuel K. Freeman, USAR, 2359-100x
•High Marine: Staff Sergeant Eric Swearingen, USMCR, 2359-90x
•High Regular Service: Staff Sergeant Tyrel Cooper, USA, Coulterville, CA, 2377-105x
Jason won his division
National Service Rifle Championship
•First Place: Staff Sergeant Tyrel Cooper, USA, Coulterville, CA, 2377-105x
•Second Place: Staff Sergeant Leigh R. Jenks III, ANG, 2369-102x
•Third Place: Sergeant Gus K. Dunfey, USA, 2369-100x
•High Woman: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High Senior: George Morgan, 2322-69x
•High Grand Senior: Jimmy C. Hinton, 2245-47x
•High Collegiate: James H. MacMillan, 2294-56x
•High Overall Junior: Christopher L. Calumpong, 2346-86x
•High Junior: Christopher L. Calumpong, 2346-86x
•High Intermediate Junior: Joseph W. Hendricks, 2324-72x
****•High Sub-Junior: Jason Williams, 2305-53x
•High Police: Master Sergeant Edward Altmeyer, ANG, 2302-55x
•High Civilian: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High Ohio Civilian Resident: Sara B. Rozanski, 2362-84x
•High National Guard: Staff Sergeant Leigh R. Jenks III, ANG, 2369-102x
•High Reserve: Captain Samuel K. Freeman, USAR, 2359-100x
•High Army Reserve: Captain Samuel K. Freeman, USAR, 2359-100x
•High Marine: Staff Sergeant Eric Swearingen, USMCR, 2359-90x
•High Regular Service: Staff Sergeant Tyrel Cooper, USA, Coulterville, CA, 2377-105x
209.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
:laugh::laugh: Sorry, just laughing to myself.
Swampy, maybe, I don't remember.
Swampy, maybe, I don't remember.
210.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;15748]I was basing it on the target AR my friends son uses for Junior competition. It is 1:8 and is slinging match grade ammo at 300/600yds VERY impressively. I have a 1:9 barrel and honestly doubt i could find a difference as you say.
My friend ,however, has supposedly tried them all and arrived at the 1:8. His son finishes well, although , im sure skill is the main reason.[/QUOTE]
At 600 yds he's almost certainly loading his rounds with heavy (likely 75-80 gr) bullets, which require the faster twist for proper stabilization. Your 1:9 [I]might[/I] stabilize the same loads, but it's by no means guaranteed.
My friend ,however, has supposedly tried them all and arrived at the 1:8. His son finishes well, although , im sure skill is the main reason.[/QUOTE]
At 600 yds he's almost certainly loading his rounds with heavy (likely 75-80 gr) bullets, which require the faster twist for proper stabilization. Your 1:9 [I]might[/I] stabilize the same loads, but it's by no means guaranteed.
211.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
I will tell you, people have built some awesome ARs and AR variants out there. Some look very very sharp.
Some look uglier than a mud fence, but they do the job.
Some look uglier than a mud fence, but they do the job.
212.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
I wonder what the AR will look like in another 5-10 years?
I heard rumors that custom bike maker Jesse James is designing ARs and 1911s. Has he done this? Anyone else?
I heard rumors that custom bike maker Jesse James is designing ARs and 1911s. Has he done this? Anyone else?
213.) Jon - 01/29/2014
Mines the nicest
214.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15755]Mines the nicest[/QUOTE]
I've heard rumors.....:p
...oh wait, I see the picture.
:co:
I've heard rumors.....:p
...oh wait, I see the picture.
:co:
215.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15753]I will tell you, people have built some awesome ARs and AR variants out there. Some look very very sharp.
Some look uglier than a mud fence, but they do the job.[/QUOTE]
And some are just downright adorable (and CA ban compliant). Awwwwwww......
Some look uglier than a mud fence, but they do the job.[/QUOTE]
And some are just downright adorable (and CA ban compliant). Awwwwwww......
216.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
Now that, is "The baddest AR in existence today!" :applause::applause::applause:
217.) bluecat - 01/29/2014
I've got some Hello Kitty bandaids to go with that too.
218.) DParker - 01/29/2014
The back story on that one is actually pretty good. The guy who put it together wanted to make a point about how irrational and meaningless the restrictions in CA's "Assault Weapon Ban" were, based as they are on ignorance and emotional reactions to how scary a firearm looks vs it's actual functional characteristics. So he built a rifle that was compliant w/all restrictions, yet every bit as functional (and deadly) as any other AR-15, while being cute and cuddly in appearance at the same time. I think of it as the B[B][COLOR="#B22222"]AR[/COLOR][/B]bie-[B][COLOR="#B22222"]15[/COLOR][/B].
219.) bluecat - 01/29/2014
Amazing, I didn't think it was real. I though you were up to your old tricks again.
220.) Swamp Fox - 01/29/2014
I'd like to see one of those with all the non-compliant stuff.
I'd like to show it to the "Why do you need an AR?" crowd when the question comes up.
I would ---Wa-La!---pull the picture out, and my response would be, "I dunno...I just think it looks bad-ass."
I'd like to show it to the "Why do you need an AR?" crowd when the question comes up.
I would ---Wa-La!---pull the picture out, and my response would be, "I dunno...I just think it looks bad-ass."
221.) DParker - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;15761]Amazing, I didn't think it was real. I though you were up to your old tricks again.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.vote29.com/newmyblog/archives/1840#!prettyPhoto"]Introducing the California Legal Hello Kitty AR-15[/URL]
{Jedi mind-control hand wave}
"These are not the 30-round magazines you're looking for."
More betterer photo...
[URL="http://www.vote29.com/newmyblog/archives/1840#!prettyPhoto"]Introducing the California Legal Hello Kitty AR-15[/URL]
{Jedi mind-control hand wave}
"These are not the 30-round magazines you're looking for."
More betterer photo...
222.) bluecat - 01/29/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15754]I wonder what the AR will look like in another 5-10 years?
I heard rumors that custom bike maker Jesse James is designing ARs and 1911s. Has he done this? Anyone else?[/QUOTE]
My guess is he will work on a design and then for no apparent reason, move on to another design...
I heard rumors that custom bike maker Jesse James is designing ARs and 1911s. Has he done this? Anyone else?[/QUOTE]
My guess is he will work on a design and then for no apparent reason, move on to another design...
223.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
[ATTACH=CONFIG]381[/ATTACH]....
224.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
More work was done on that storm trooper AR I posted the other day.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/635656_Storm_Trooper_Build____First_Pic_Update_Pg_3__.html&page=3[/url]
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/635656_Storm_Trooper_Build____First_Pic_Update_Pg_3__.html&page=3[/url]
225.) Floyd - 01/29/2014
Another, baddest AR in existence today! A double barrel AR:
[url]http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/gilboa-snake-double-barrel-ar-15/[/url]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]382[/ATTACH]
[url]http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/gilboa-snake-double-barrel-ar-15/[/url]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]382[/ATTACH]
226.) Swamp Fox - 01/30/2014
D'oh! Why didn't I think of that?!
Brilliant!
:grin:
Brilliant!
:grin:
227.) DParker - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15769]D'oh! Why didn't I think of that?![/QUOTE]
Probably for the same reason you didn't think of the Mossberg 500 "Road Blocker" or 464 SPX: Because they're stupid, and you're still sober.
Probably for the same reason you didn't think of the Mossberg 500 "Road Blocker" or 464 SPX: Because they're stupid, and you're still sober.
228.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
BINGO! DP's post nailed it.
229.) Swamp Fox - 01/30/2014
[ATTACH=CONFIG]383[/ATTACH]....
230.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
oK floyd , u win.
no ar in the world is as good as urs.
and u are the best shot in the world.
and u are the best soldier in existence.
and u are the best forum junkie known to man.
and u would look better holding that barbie-15 than the model DP posted.
and noone should ever doubt any of the above statements.
true story:tu:
no ar in the world is as good as urs.
and u are the best shot in the world.
and u are the best soldier in existence.
and u are the best forum junkie known to man.
and u would look better holding that barbie-15 than the model DP posted.
and noone should ever doubt any of the above statements.
true story:tu:
231.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
You missed the point young man. But, that's okay. I didn't think you would miss the point, but you did.
232.) Jon - 01/30/2014
He was doing so good too. An entire day without being a douche. Obviously reached the wall and couldn't stop himself. Too bad too, he actually started to look somewhat promising........
233.) BULLZ-i - 01/30/2014
#3 OF THE WORST THREADS EVER :bang:
234.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
I don't think so. DP put a lot of good info out.
235.) BULLZ-i - 01/30/2014
NO MATTER WHAT IT ALWAYS ENDS UP :dh:
A L W A Y S !
A L W A Y S !
236.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
[LEFT][/LEFT][QUOTE=Floyd;15808]You missed the point young man. But, that's okay. I didn't think you would miss the point, but you did.[/QUOTE]
Missed the point huh?
Well, let me point out for you what is so irratating when you chime in. I was trying to make informative posts based on my experience along with that of friends. You make a joke of the results i posted of a 14 year old kid? Really, whats the point of that?
Then , you berate most every post that I put on the forum. Whats the point there? I wasnt trying to make you feel like your AR is inferior, i was merely pointing out a new firearm mfr that makes a badass weapon.
Then, naturally your two buddies chime in and start talking shit, as usual.
Floyd of the day!
Missed the point huh?
Well, let me point out for you what is so irratating when you chime in. I was trying to make informative posts based on my experience along with that of friends. You make a joke of the results i posted of a 14 year old kid? Really, whats the point of that?
Then , you berate most every post that I put on the forum. Whats the point there? I wasnt trying to make you feel like your AR is inferior, i was merely pointing out a new firearm mfr that makes a badass weapon.
Then, naturally your two buddies chime in and start talking shit, as usual.
Floyd of the day!
237.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15809]He was doing so good too. An entire day without being a douche. Obviously reached the wall and couldn't stop himself. Too bad too, he actually started to look somewhat promising........[/QUOTE]
you always have to chime in.
Maybe if you would open your eyes to floyd, you would notice what he was trying to do in the first place. Its the same with all 3 of you.
you always have to chime in.
Maybe if you would open your eyes to floyd, you would notice what he was trying to do in the first place. Its the same with all 3 of you.
238.) luv2bowhunt - 01/30/2014
Yea, all 3 of you.........wait..........I thought there were more.
239.) BULLZ-i - 01/30/2014
SEE !
:dh:
:dh:
240.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
Well, I mean it was going well until DP did a W C Fields popping a kids ballon stic and I got hit for it. Very humours. I'm still giggling.
241.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;15813][LEFT][/LEFT]
Missed the point huh?
Well, let me point out for you what is so irratating when you chime in. I was trying to make informative posts based on my experience along with that of friends. You make a joke of the results i posted of a 14 year old kid? Really, whats the point of that?
Then , you berate most every post that I put on the forum. Whats the point there? I wasnt trying to make you feel like your AR is inferior, i was merely pointing out a new firearm mfr that makes a badass weapon.
Then, naturally your two buddies chime in and start talking shit, as usual.
Floyd of the day![/QUOTE]
My apologies. I did not know my approval was need to valudate yours and friends taste in rifles. I did say I liked it though.
Missed the point huh?
Well, let me point out for you what is so irratating when you chime in. I was trying to make informative posts based on my experience along with that of friends. You make a joke of the results i posted of a 14 year old kid? Really, whats the point of that?
Then , you berate most every post that I put on the forum. Whats the point there? I wasnt trying to make you feel like your AR is inferior, i was merely pointing out a new firearm mfr that makes a badass weapon.
Then, naturally your two buddies chime in and start talking shit, as usual.
Floyd of the day![/QUOTE]
My apologies. I did not know my approval was need to valudate yours and friends taste in rifles. I did say I liked it though.
242.) Swamp Fox - 01/30/2014
243.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
i was referring to the 1:8. no , your approval isnt needed.
Feel free to get the thread back on track.
have you seen the new DPMS GEN II rifle?
Feel free to get the thread back on track.
have you seen the new DPMS GEN II rifle?
244.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
[video=youtube;k4jg9VRa7fE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4jg9VRa7fE&feature=player_embedded[/video]
245.) luv2bowhunt - 01/30/2014
No, no, you can't leave me hanging. You specifically stated that there were 3 who don't like you. I DEMAND a recount on this.
I'm not buying that one.:wink:tu::bang::beer::td:
I'm not buying that one.:wink:tu::bang::beer::td:
246.) Jon - 01/30/2014
I'm with Luv2, surely there are 20x that number!
247.) OKY - 01/30/2014
Only 20?
248.) Ventilator - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;15840]I'm with Luv2, surely there are 20x that number![/QUOTE]
yeah, surely its more than that. but i only have three toes.
yeah, surely its more than that. but i only have three toes.
249.) DParker - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15817]Well, I mean it was going well until DP did a W C Fields popping a kids ballon stic and I got hit for it. Very humours. I'm still giggling.[/QUOTE]
Don't be dragging me into the sandbox.
Don't be dragging me into the sandbox.
250.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;15848]Don't be pushing me into the sandbox. You've seen how many cats Swampy has around here, right? [/QUOTE]
Fixed.
It's okay DP, I understand. I received all your points well.
Fixed.
It's okay DP, I understand. I received all your points well.
251.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
Swampy, the link below is picture heavy with AR, AR variant's, bolt action as well as other rifle with suppressors. I think you had a question about suppressors on 16" and longer barrels. I don't know if there are right or wrong answers, but there seems to all kinds of applications though. Some of these rifles are impressive.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/202001_Suppressed_Rifles_Picture_Thread.html[/url]
....
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/202001_Suppressed_Rifles_Picture_Thread.html[/url]
....
252.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
DP. I found another one.....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]384[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]385[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]384[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]385[/ATTACH]
253.) DParker - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15861]DP. I found another one.....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]384[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]385[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Slick. Now, just need to replace the Beta mags with something more reliable.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]384[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]385[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Slick. Now, just need to replace the Beta mags with something more reliable.
254.) Floyd - 01/30/2014
DParker, cuestión. Is this right? There seems to be a suggestion that muzzle brake quick disconnect muzzle adapters for silencers are preferred over flash hider types.
And I'm not sure why.
And I'm not sure why.
255.) DParker - 01/30/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15864]DParker, cuestión. Is this right? There seems to be a suggestion that muzzle brake quick disconnect muzzle adapters for silencers are preferred over flash hider types.
And I'm not sure why.[/QUOTE]
I've not stumbled across any debates on that one, nor do I have a suppressor myself (tough to get sign-off with the law enforcement in my area), so I'm not really sure what the pros/cons are of either approach.
And I'm not sure why.[/QUOTE]
I've not stumbled across any debates on that one, nor do I have a suppressor myself (tough to get sign-off with the law enforcement in my area), so I'm not really sure what the pros/cons are of either approach.
256.) BULLZ-i - 01/30/2014
[B][COLOR="#0000FF"]~YAWN~[/COLOR][/B]
257.) Swamp Fox - 01/30/2014
Bullz-i, what can we do to make this thread mo' better? ...Besides play polka music...
:wink
:wink
258.) Swamp Fox - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;15858]Swampy, the link below is picture heavy with AR, AR variant's, bolt action as well as other rifle with suppressors. I think you had a question about suppressors on 16" and longer barrels. I don't know if there are right or wrong answers, but there seems to all kinds of applications though. Some of these rifles are impressive.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/202001_Suppressed_Rifles_Picture_Thread.html[/url]
....[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Floyd. Some of those SBRs are just the ticket....:-)
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/202001_Suppressed_Rifles_Picture_Thread.html[/url]
....[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Floyd. Some of those SBRs are just the ticket....:-)
259.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
Some are very sexy.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]386[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]387[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]388[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]386[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]387[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]388[/ATTACH]
260.) BULLZ-i - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;15869]Bullz-i, what can we do to make this thread mo' better? ...Besides play polka music...
:wink[/QUOTE]
NUTHIN, I JUST WONT READ OR SAY SQUAT.
THIS IS A LOST CAUSE CAUSE AR's TO ME ARE LIKE A JEEP OR OR LEGO's. SO MANY OPTIONS SO LITTLE MONEY OR TIME. EVERYONE HAS A CERTAIN WAY TO SET THEIRS UP AND THEIRS IS ALWAYS THE BEST EVER.
I USED TO LOVE TO READ WHEN A GUY WOULD DO HIS OWN BUILD ONE WEEK AND ASKING EVERY QUESTION IN THE BOOK ALL THE WAY AND THE NEXT HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE BEST ARMORER KNOW TO MAN. BEING THAT GUY!
THAT SAID, I HAVE 2 AND THEY ARE THE SUPER DUPER VERY BEST IN THE WORLD AND I DONT HAFTA PROVE IT UNLESS YOU WALK THRU MY DOOR UNANNOUNCED
:wink[/QUOTE]
NUTHIN, I JUST WONT READ OR SAY SQUAT.
THIS IS A LOST CAUSE CAUSE AR's TO ME ARE LIKE A JEEP OR OR LEGO's. SO MANY OPTIONS SO LITTLE MONEY OR TIME. EVERYONE HAS A CERTAIN WAY TO SET THEIRS UP AND THEIRS IS ALWAYS THE BEST EVER.
I USED TO LOVE TO READ WHEN A GUY WOULD DO HIS OWN BUILD ONE WEEK AND ASKING EVERY QUESTION IN THE BOOK ALL THE WAY AND THE NEXT HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE BEST ARMORER KNOW TO MAN. BEING THAT GUY!
THAT SAID, I HAVE 2 AND THEY ARE THE SUPER DUPER VERY BEST IN THE WORLD AND I DONT HAFTA PROVE IT UNLESS YOU WALK THRU MY DOOR UNANNOUNCED
261.) BULLZ-i - 01/31/2014
P.S. I LIKE ME SOME POLKA NOW
262.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
:tu:
263.) DParker - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;15878]P.S. I LIKE ME SOME POLKA NOW[/QUOTE]
Ja.
Ja.
264.) Swamp Fox - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;15877]...THIS IS A LOST CAUSE CAUSE AR's TO ME ARE LIKE A JEEP OR OR LEGO's. SO MANY OPTIONS SO LITTLE MONEY OR TIME. EVERYONE HAS A CERTAIN WAY TO SET THEIRS UP AND THEIRS IS ALWAYS THE BEST EVER.
I USED TO LOVE TO READ WHEN A GUY WOULD DO HIS OWN BUILD ONE WEEK AND ASKING EVERY QUESTION IN THE BOOK ALL THE WAY AND THE NEXT HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE BEST ARMORER KNOW TO MAN. BEING THAT GUY!
[/QUOTE]
Gotcha.
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;15878]P.S. I LIKE ME SOME POLKA NOW[/QUOTE]
Ask and you shall receive. I am leaving something for you---well, for me, too, really---in the Friday Music thread.
I wouldn't want to be accused (AGAIN) of hijacking this thread...Or would I??? :wink
I USED TO LOVE TO READ WHEN A GUY WOULD DO HIS OWN BUILD ONE WEEK AND ASKING EVERY QUESTION IN THE BOOK ALL THE WAY AND THE NEXT HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE BEST ARMORER KNOW TO MAN. BEING THAT GUY!
[/QUOTE]
Gotcha.
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;15878]P.S. I LIKE ME SOME POLKA NOW[/QUOTE]
Ask and you shall receive. I am leaving something for you---well, for me, too, really---in the Friday Music thread.
I wouldn't want to be accused (AGAIN) of hijacking this thread...Or would I??? :wink
265.) bluecat - 01/31/2014
I'm thinking of building an AR. Any thoughts, suggestions? :re:
266.) Ventilator - 01/31/2014
Yup, build it like floyds. Colt 1:7 twist, 5.56 & Suppressor. :tu:
267.) Jon - 01/31/2014
Colt sucks, mine's the best:tu:
268.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
Thank you Kenny, I'm flatter. You give me too much credit (but you knew that).
Yep, can't go wrong with a colt. It's the gold standard of AR's as told be many experts such as Kenny and others (thanks for pointed that out Kenny). I don't happen to own one. :-( As most of you [U]know[/U].
Mine would be considered a copy cat, one would might say, and not "mil spec". But, like other AR builders/owners would say about their ARs, its the most 'baddest AR in existence today!' If you get my meaning. Most do.
Yes Bluecat, I agree with Kenny, build that AR Bluecat, because it will be the most 'baddest AR in existence today!'
Thanks Kenny. :tu:
pssst, Bluecat it's humorous, like, ford vs chevy; bowtech vs mathews, beans vs no beans. You can't go wrong. Any other questions Bluecat?
(I know for a fact that BULLZ-i AR's are awesome and baddest)(you know, so is Jon's)(and DParker's)(and Logan's)(and Kenney's) (heck, theirs and others have [U]one[/U] of the baddest AR in existence today! BARNONE (well, you know what I mean)) Thank positive now...
Yep, can't go wrong with a colt. It's the gold standard of AR's as told be many experts such as Kenny and others (thanks for pointed that out Kenny). I don't happen to own one. :-( As most of you [U]know[/U].
Mine would be considered a copy cat, one would might say, and not "mil spec". But, like other AR builders/owners would say about their ARs, its the most 'baddest AR in existence today!' If you get my meaning. Most do.
Yes Bluecat, I agree with Kenny, build that AR Bluecat, because it will be the most 'baddest AR in existence today!'
Thanks Kenny. :tu:
pssst, Bluecat it's humorous, like, ford vs chevy; bowtech vs mathews, beans vs no beans. You can't go wrong. Any other questions Bluecat?
(I know for a fact that BULLZ-i AR's are awesome and baddest)(you know, so is Jon's)(and DParker's)(and Logan's)(and Kenney's) (heck, theirs and others have [U]one[/U] of the baddest AR in existence today! BARNONE (well, you know what I mean)) Thank positive now...
269.) luv2bowhunt - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;15877]THIS IS A LOST CAUSE CAUSE AR's TO ME ARE LIKE A JEEP OR OR LEGO's. SO MANY OPTIONS SO LITTLE MONEY OR TIME. EVERYONE HAS A CERTAIN WAY TO SET THEIRS UP AND THEIRS IS ALWAYS THE BEST EVER.[/QUOTE]
My Jeep is the best, just sayin'.
My Jeep is the best, just sayin'.
270.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
I like yo Jeep. Not really. I like mine better. It's the baddest.
But, I would like to see that picture of you and your Jeep on the beach. That was the baddest Jeep that day. Mine was parked in the drive way doing nothing. :-(
Wait, I don't have a Jeep. :cf: Mine is what would be considered a copy cat jeep. I treat it like a jeep though and it's one of the baddest copy cat jeeps out there today.
But, I would like to see that picture of you and your Jeep on the beach. That was the baddest Jeep that day. Mine was parked in the drive way doing nothing. :-(
Wait, I don't have a Jeep. :cf: Mine is what would be considered a copy cat jeep. I treat it like a jeep though and it's one of the baddest copy cat jeeps out there today.
271.) luv2bowhunt - 01/31/2014
I know there is no copy cat Jeep like yours on this day. But then all 3 of you are against me, so................huh?
Happy Birthday Floyd!!:wink
If I had an AR, I would probably come into work with it, so then again..................
Happy Birthday Floyd!!:wink
If I had an AR, I would probably come into work with it, so then again..................
272.) Ventilator - 01/31/2014
Actually floyd, i thought u had two Colts, my mistake.
Never said mine was the baddest one in existence. (just the Arsenal Democracy one,Lol)
Never claimed to be an expert, (but you knew that too floyd)
You deserve lots of credit floyd. :tu:
Never said mine was the baddest one in existence. (just the Arsenal Democracy one,Lol)
Never claimed to be an expert, (but you knew that too floyd)
You deserve lots of credit floyd. :tu:
273.) luv2bowhunt - 01/31/2014
I knew a guy once who could never let things go, spent his whole life trying to get the last word in, prove his point, win the argument.
There is no greater waste of time on an internet forum, than engaging in this strategy. Sometimes you have to shake the dust off your feet and move on.
.......just sayin'.:co:
There is no greater waste of time on an internet forum, than engaging in this strategy. Sometimes you have to shake the dust off your feet and move on.
.......just sayin'.:co:
274.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
Ah, you're way too modest Kenny. Only an expert would boldly make an exclamation, a declaration if you will, of the highest caliber like yours; [QUOTE=Ventilator;15734]Behold:
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 5.56
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url][/QUOTE]
Job well done Kenny.
I applaud you. :applause:
Please don't take offense. I am exulting your bravado.
The baddest AR in existence today!
The Reaper 33 5.56
[url]www.arsenaldemocracy.com/#reaper-highlight[/url][/QUOTE]
Job well done Kenny.
I applaud you. :applause:
Please don't take offense. I am exulting your bravado.
275.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;15897]I knew a guy once who could never let things go, spent his whole life trying to get the last word in, prove his point, win the argument.
There is no greater waste of time on an internet forum, than engaging in this strategy. Sometimes you have to shake the dust off your feet and move on.
.......just sayin'.:co:[/QUOTE]
I agree. Better to snipe from high places, dust off your feet and move on.
There is no greater waste of time on an internet forum, than engaging in this strategy. Sometimes you have to shake the dust off your feet and move on.
.......just sayin'.:co:[/QUOTE]
I agree. Better to snipe from high places, dust off your feet and move on.
276.) Floyd - 01/31/2014
Back to wanting an AR. I'm with Swampy. I think my next build will be a lightweight AR for my daughter.
277.) Jon - 01/31/2014
The clock is ticking, I know it won't tick too long before...................
278.) luv2bowhunt - 01/31/2014
I tried to give him a minute to pause.......think clearly.........and then decide not to post.
Could I be more helpful to him than I've been? It goes against everything I've ever stood for on here but I tried to be nice and helpful.
Uuggghh it is painful even to type that. I need to go kick the dog or something.
Could I be more helpful to him than I've been? It goes against everything I've ever stood for on here but I tried to be nice and helpful.
Uuggghh it is painful even to type that. I need to go kick the dog or something.
279.) BULLZ-i - 01/31/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;15890]My Jeep is the best, just sayin'.[/QUOTE]
[B]BY JEEP YOU MEAN LEGOS ?[/B]
[B]BY JEEP YOU MEAN LEGOS ?[/B]
280.) Floyd - 02/01/2014
I went back to that Storm Trooper thread I mentioned before on this thread. More cool stuff added. If you wish to look: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/635656_Storm_Trooper_Build____First_Pic_Update_Pg_3__.html&page=4[/url]
281.) Ar-mink - 02/03/2014
Hey guys, I kinda lost track of this thread over the last week. We had a tragedy hit our small town and just haven't been on the interweb much.
[url]http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2014/01/30/High-school-player-collapses-dies-during-basketball-game/UPI-94871391105535/[/url]
Somewhere around page 10 I think, I posted a PSA complete lower. DPARKER said he would upgrade the trigger and change out the pistol grip and but stock for a more comfortable one. (And I think we already covered this but I couldn't find it) would I be better off buying a stripped lower and piecing it together, and if so what brands should I be looking at. I do plan on staying away from the plastic ones.
[url]http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2014/01/30/High-school-player-collapses-dies-during-basketball-game/UPI-94871391105535/[/url]
Somewhere around page 10 I think, I posted a PSA complete lower. DPARKER said he would upgrade the trigger and change out the pistol grip and but stock for a more comfortable one. (And I think we already covered this but I couldn't find it) would I be better off buying a stripped lower and piecing it together, and if so what brands should I be looking at. I do plan on staying away from the plastic ones.
282.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
Ar-mink, I think DP addressed some of that through out this thread. I'm sure he'll re-address soon.
A PSA striped lower would do the trick, if he recommended the complete one. I think he said any lower would do, and said something about the billet one I can't remember what he said about those. But, I think key to the lower is the trigger group.
Any lowers strike your fancy? I'm looking for one with a Texas Flag on it. Don't much care about the brand of the lower. But, I do want it to have a removable trigger guard so I can put in something to allow for gloves to be used.
A PSA striped lower would do the trick, if he recommended the complete one. I think he said any lower would do, and said something about the billet one I can't remember what he said about those. But, I think key to the lower is the trigger group.
Any lowers strike your fancy? I'm looking for one with a Texas Flag on it. Don't much care about the brand of the lower. But, I do want it to have a removable trigger guard so I can put in something to allow for gloves to be used.
283.) Ventilator - 02/03/2014
Sorry to hear about the tragedy of the kid. Terrible thing to happen.
Yes, this thread has taken many turns since you were here last. Check out Yankee Hill Machine. They put out a plethora of parts for ARs. They also make quality stuff. You can get most all you need from them and know its top notch.
Many options out there, this is just a one stop suggestion for you to look into.
[url]www.yhm.net[/url]
Yes, this thread has taken many turns since you were here last. Check out Yankee Hill Machine. They put out a plethora of parts for ARs. They also make quality stuff. You can get most all you need from them and know its top notch.
Many options out there, this is just a one stop suggestion for you to look into.
[url]www.yhm.net[/url]
284.) Ar-mink - 02/03/2014
Thanks Floyd, there's nothing out there that strikes my fancy. Honestly they all look the same to me. I certainly do not want one with a Texas flag on it lol.
285.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
Oh man, check this out: Texas flag motif mags... [url]http://shop.abreoncustom.com/Texas-Flag-1107.htm[/url]
.png)
There are others as well: [url]http://shop.abreoncustom.com/main.sc[/url]
There are others as well: [url]http://shop.abreoncustom.com/main.sc[/url]
286.) Ar-mink - 02/03/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;16061]Sorry to hear about the tragedy of the kid. Terrible thing to happen.
Yes, this thread has taken many turns since you were here last. Check out Yankee Hill Machine. They put out a plethora of parts for ARs. They also make quality stuff. You can get most all you need from them and know its top notch.
Many options out there, this is just a one stop suggestion for you to look into.
[url]www.yhm.net[/url][/QUOTE]
Thank you, our small town seems to loose to many to young.
I've heard of Yankee hill, I will check them out.
Yes, this thread has taken many turns since you were here last. Check out Yankee Hill Machine. They put out a plethora of parts for ARs. They also make quality stuff. You can get most all you need from them and know its top notch.
Many options out there, this is just a one stop suggestion for you to look into.
[url]www.yhm.net[/url][/QUOTE]
Thank you, our small town seems to loose to many to young.
I've heard of Yankee hill, I will check them out.
287.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16062]Thanks Floyd, there's nothing out there that strikes my fancy. Honestly they all look the same to me. I certainly do not want one with a Texas flag on it lol.[/QUOTE]
I understand. There is Sooner stuff out there too. You can get a plain Jane Lower and take it and get it engraved how ever you want it.
There are differences in lowers cosmetically; i.e mag well design, round vs tear drop or oval forward assist and other slight changes.
What's cool is you can your dremal tool out and make changes and also paint it yourself. Or take it to a local gun shop or Gun smith and get customized just for you.
I understand. There is Sooner stuff out there too. You can get a plain Jane Lower and take it and get it engraved how ever you want it.
There are differences in lowers cosmetically; i.e mag well design, round vs tear drop or oval forward assist and other slight changes.
What's cool is you can your dremal tool out and make changes and also paint it yourself. Or take it to a local gun shop or Gun smith and get customized just for you.
288.) DParker - 02/03/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16059]Hey guys, I kinda lost track of this thread over the last week. We had a tragedy hit our small town and just haven't been on the interweb much.
[url]http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2014/01/30/High-school-player-collapses-dies-during-basketball-game/UPI-94871391105535/[/url][/QUOTE]
Damn. That's awful to be hit by those sorts of life-threatening ailments so young.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16059]Somewhere around page 10 I think, I posted a PSA complete lower. DPARKER said he would upgrade the trigger and change out the pistol grip and but stock for a more comfortable one. (And I think we already covered this but I couldn't find it) would I be better off buying a stripped lower and piecing it together, and if so what brands should I be looking at. I do plan on staying away from the plastic ones.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think you're better off putting one together yourself, for reasons of both cost and getting what you really want. As for stripped lowers...honestly, buy whatever forged aluminum one looks coolest to you from any reputable manufacturer. If you couldn't care less what it looks like, then just go with the best deal you can find and enjoy saving a few bucks. There's not much in the way of non-cosmetic differences between them.
The post of mine you're referring to was this one: [URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?890-Wanting-an-AR&p=15673&viewfull=1#post15673"]http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?890-Wanting-an-AR&p=15673&viewfull=1#post15673[/URL]
Note that the parts I list are just examples of what you can do by picking and choosing the individual parts yourself. If you find a grip/stock/lower/whatever that you like better, by all means, substitute. I do highly recommend the RRA trigger though, as it is the best way to go for a non-competition upgrade...which IMHO is sorely needed on any AR. But of course it's your money, so ultimately your decision.
[url]http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2014/01/30/High-school-player-collapses-dies-during-basketball-game/UPI-94871391105535/[/url][/QUOTE]
Damn. That's awful to be hit by those sorts of life-threatening ailments so young.
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16059]Somewhere around page 10 I think, I posted a PSA complete lower. DPARKER said he would upgrade the trigger and change out the pistol grip and but stock for a more comfortable one. (And I think we already covered this but I couldn't find it) would I be better off buying a stripped lower and piecing it together, and if so what brands should I be looking at. I do plan on staying away from the plastic ones.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think you're better off putting one together yourself, for reasons of both cost and getting what you really want. As for stripped lowers...honestly, buy whatever forged aluminum one looks coolest to you from any reputable manufacturer. If you couldn't care less what it looks like, then just go with the best deal you can find and enjoy saving a few bucks. There's not much in the way of non-cosmetic differences between them.
The post of mine you're referring to was this one: [URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?890-Wanting-an-AR&p=15673&viewfull=1#post15673"]http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?890-Wanting-an-AR&p=15673&viewfull=1#post15673[/URL]
Note that the parts I list are just examples of what you can do by picking and choosing the individual parts yourself. If you find a grip/stock/lower/whatever that you like better, by all means, substitute. I do highly recommend the RRA trigger though, as it is the best way to go for a non-competition upgrade...which IMHO is sorely needed on any AR. But of course it's your money, so ultimately your decision.
289.) Ar-mink - 02/03/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16065]I understand. There is Sooner stuff out there too. You can get a plain Jane Lower and take it and get it engraved how ever you want it.
There are differences in lowers cosmetically; i.e mag well design, round vs tear drop or oval forward assist and other slight changes.
What's cool is you can your dremal tool out and make changes and also paint it yourself. Or take it to a local gun shop or Gun smith and get customized just for you.[/QUOTE]
I'm leaning towards getting it hydro dipped if I can keep the price down enough to allow for it. Another option is I have a good friend who is an amazing air-brush artist, I'm sure she could put whatever graphics I wanted on it. I seen the set of American flag mags like your Texas mags that I liked a lot.
There are differences in lowers cosmetically; i.e mag well design, round vs tear drop or oval forward assist and other slight changes.
What's cool is you can your dremal tool out and make changes and also paint it yourself. Or take it to a local gun shop or Gun smith and get customized just for you.[/QUOTE]
I'm leaning towards getting it hydro dipped if I can keep the price down enough to allow for it. Another option is I have a good friend who is an amazing air-brush artist, I'm sure she could put whatever graphics I wanted on it. I seen the set of American flag mags like your Texas mags that I liked a lot.
290.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
Ar-mink, two example of lower differences. The bottom is a "mil spec" Colt Lower very desirable to a lot of folks.
The top appeals to those desiring something else. Trigger guard and Mag well flare.
The top appeals to those desiring something else. Trigger guard and Mag well flare.
291.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16068]I'm leaning towards getting it hydro dipped if I can keep the price down enough to allow for it. Another option is I have a good friend who is an amazing air-brush artist, I'm sure she could put whatever graphics I wanted on it. I seen the set of American flag mags like your Texas mags that I liked a lot.[/QUOTE]
The sky and beyond is the limit. Now I can't wait to see your results. Sounds great.
The sky and beyond is the limit. Now I can't wait to see your results. Sounds great.
292.) DParker - 02/03/2014
The sky's the limit is right. Here's what you can do with high-durability paint finishes alone...
[url]http://duracoat-firearm-finishes.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.kgcoatings.com/gun-kote-finish.php[/url]
[url]http://duracoat-firearm-finishes.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.kgcoatings.com/gun-kote-finish.php[/url]
293.) billy b - 02/03/2014
Stay tuned for some good news for you gun & bow people in a few short months.:grin:
294.) Floyd - 02/03/2014
It's only been six minutes since you post. The suspense is killing me. Spill the beans. Please please.
295.) DParker - 02/03/2014
Woo-hoo! Billy's buying each member of HC a brand new bow and 1911!!
296.) DParker - 02/04/2014
Take your pick from these stripped lowers from Bud's for $96-$102 (cash prices). Free shipping, though you'll need to have them shipped to a local FFL to handle the transfer (most pawn shops or local gun shops will to this for a nominal fee of anywhere from $15-$25 to cover the 4473 paperwork and call to the NICS, unless you have a CHL and live someplace like TX, in which case you get to skip the background check).
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/88816/Del-Ton+Inc+LR100+AR-15+Lower+Receiver+Stripped+.2235.56[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1233/products_id/411553102/Rifles/AR+Five+Seven/Forged+AR-15+Stripped+Lower+Receiver[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1164/products_id/80707/Rifles/Anderson+Rifles/Anderson+AR15A3LWFOR+AR-15+223REM5.56NATO+Stripped+Lower+Receiver[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/61676[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/88816/Del-Ton+Inc+LR100+AR-15+Lower+Receiver+Stripped+.2235.56[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1233/products_id/411553102/Rifles/AR+Five+Seven/Forged+AR-15+Stripped+Lower+Receiver[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1164/products_id/80707/Rifles/Anderson+Rifles/Anderson+AR15A3LWFOR+AR-15+223REM5.56NATO+Stripped+Lower+Receiver[/url]
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/61676[/url]
297.) Deerminator - 02/04/2014
[I][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=2][COLOR="#0000FF"]I live in the wrong state[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/I]
298.) Ar-mink - 02/04/2014
Thanks DP. Since the weather is crappy today I think I'll drive around to a couple gun shop to see if they have any lowers for a competitive price.
299.) DParker - 02/04/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16107]Thanks DP. Since the weather is crappy today I think I'll drive around to a couple gun shop to see if they have any lowers for a competitive price.[/QUOTE]
There's a good way to spend a day. :tu:
If you're lucky you'll have one or two local folks who don't jack their prices up too high. And you'll sometimes find that when you factor everything in (sales tax, FFL transfer fees, etc) it's pretty much a wash on price, or at least close enough to make it worth a couple of extra bucks to walk out with the lower in your hands right then and there. Gun shows are also a good source, if you have any going on locally.
There's a good way to spend a day. :tu:
If you're lucky you'll have one or two local folks who don't jack their prices up too high. And you'll sometimes find that when you factor everything in (sales tax, FFL transfer fees, etc) it's pretty much a wash on price, or at least close enough to make it worth a couple of extra bucks to walk out with the lower in your hands right then and there. Gun shows are also a good source, if you have any going on locally.
300.) Floyd - 02/04/2014
Experiencing someone go through the process is exciting too.
301.) Ar-mink - 02/04/2014
Well it turned out the snow stopped sooner than expected so I tried to get some work done. The one gun store I did stop by had one for $179. The high for the next two days are in the teens so I suspect I will have to visit a few more gun stores to stay warm.
302.) Floyd - 02/04/2014
I saw one on the net for little over $600 bucks the other day (Stripped). Yikes.
303.) DParker - 02/04/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16135]Well it turned out the snow stopped sooner than expected so I tried to get some work done.[/QUOTE]
Work? Instead of gun store-hopping? I'm disappointed by your obviously confused sense of priorities. :tap:
[QUOTE=Floyd;16136]I saw one on the net for little over $600 bucks the other day (Stripped). Yikes.[/QUOTE]
Gold-plated titanium hand polished with the hair of vestal virgins?
Work? Instead of gun store-hopping? I'm disappointed by your obviously confused sense of priorities. :tap:
[QUOTE=Floyd;16136]I saw one on the net for little over $600 bucks the other day (Stripped). Yikes.[/QUOTE]
Gold-plated titanium hand polished with the hair of vestal virgins?
304.) DParker - 02/05/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;16100][I][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=2][COLOR="#0000FF"]I live in the wrong state[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/QUOTE]
You just need to be a little more creative than most of the rest of us.
You just need to be a little more creative than most of the rest of us.
305.) Floyd - 02/05/2014
Sharp. I like it. I'd like to see others. Amazing what creative people come up with.
306.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
Ar-mink, president day sales should be hitting soon. Good luck.
307.) Swamp Fox - 02/06/2014
I wonder what "indefinite backorder" means.
Lots of complete lowers in that state, whereas complete rifles from the same people do not carry that caveat.
What are the chances of getting a rifle built from pieces-parts in a few weeks, say, if major parts are on "indefinite backorder'' (or even if they're not listed that way but are backed-up in the pipeline)?
Lots of complete lowers in that state, whereas complete rifles from the same people do not carry that caveat.
What are the chances of getting a rifle built from pieces-parts in a few weeks, say, if major parts are on "indefinite backorder'' (or even if they're not listed that way but are backed-up in the pipeline)?
308.) Ventilator - 02/06/2014
You shouldnt have any trouble finding complete uppers or barrels either one. Alot of the lowers are on backorder,but , i dont think its too hard to find stripped available. Depends on how much money you are trying to save on your build. A quick search yeilded several results on monday for me.
309.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
Get your swampbutt to a gun show or local yokal or gun broker or other site.
Or that guy down town who's selling watches, knows a guy who knows a guy.
You checked craig's list?
Or that guy down town who's selling watches, knows a guy who knows a guy.
You checked craig's list?
310.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
Slickguns.com
311.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
[url]http://www.outbreakordnance.com/products.php?23&manufacturers=1&sid=72c4b51c967a6f2dc79310a0aa1d83d5[/url]
312.) Swamp Fox - 02/06/2014
I might have to try Craig's List. I couldn't make the big gun show around here last month. There's one in Charlotte the weekend of the 15th, but so far I'm committed elsewhere that weekend. Plus it's a long way to go shopping and I'd need at least one other excuse to go all the way over there...blah, blah, blah...
313.) DParker - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16169]I wonder what "indefinite backorder" means.[/QUOTE]
It means you're SOL and need to pick something else.
Parts are easy to find now, with some lowers even on sale (see the links I've posted).
It means you're SOL and need to pick something else.
Parts are easy to find now, with some lowers even on sale (see the links I've posted).
314.) Jon - 02/06/2014
Swampy, if you gave up after 5 minutes I can understand seeing one manufacturer being on unlimited backorder. Honestly, I could put together a custom build within an hour and have every component shipped to my house and have the gun built in less than 10 days, guaranteed.
Build the gun around a good barrel, start there. Build the lower around a quality trigger. Buy furniture to suit your needs. It's really easy now, order everything new OR go on one of the websites like gunbroker.com and buy used. In the amount of time we've been chatting about this, you could have had the darn thing broken in.
Build the gun around a good barrel, start there. Build the lower around a quality trigger. Buy furniture to suit your needs. It's really easy now, order everything new OR go on one of the websites like gunbroker.com and buy used. In the amount of time we've been chatting about this, you could have had the darn thing broken in.
315.) DParker - 02/06/2014
You tell him, Jon!!!!! :grin:
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16175]I might have to try Craig's List.[/QUOTE]
Craig's List? Geez, man...you're just looking for commonly-available AR parts, not a set of door handles for your '65 Corvair restoration project.
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16175]I might have to try Craig's List.[/QUOTE]
Craig's List? Geez, man...you're just looking for commonly-available AR parts, not a set of door handles for your '65 Corvair restoration project.
316.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16175]I might have to try Craig's List. I couldn't make the big gun show around here last month. There's one in Charlotte the weekend of the 15th, but so far I'm committed elsewhere that weekend. Plus it's a long way to go shopping and I'd need at least one other excuse to go all the way over there...blah, blah, blah...[/QUOTE]
I don't know Swampy.... I'm starting the question your sincerity, commitment, passion, dedication and AR-itude to your cause.
I don't know Swampy.... I'm starting the question your sincerity, commitment, passion, dedication and AR-itude to your cause.
317.) DParker - 02/06/2014
C'mon man. [I]All[/I] the cool kids are doin' it!
318.) OKY - 02/06/2014
He's not tactical enough.:grin:
319.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
Proposal --> Alternatives --> Excuses --> does not equal a result.
He may have a commitment problem though. I mean, it's not like he's buying more tree stand steps.
He may have a commitment problem though. I mean, it's not like he's buying more tree stand steps.
320.) Deerminator - 02/06/2014
Do it for us [B]NEW YORK STATE'ers[/B]
321.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
Maybe if he started out a little slower he'd get there. Let's say........with an Airsoft AR. I mean, he could have fun with his kitty-cats with it. Here kitty, kitty......
322.) DParker - 02/06/2014
Now build an AR, or I shall taunt you a second time!
323.) Deerminator - 02/06/2014
:laugh:
324.) Deerminator - 02/06/2014
A [FONT=Times New Roman]DOUBLE DOG DARE[/FONT] off the top rope;
[SIZE=7][FONT=Georgia][COLOR="#FFD700"]BABAM!!![/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=7][FONT=Georgia][COLOR="#FFD700"]BABAM!!![/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
325.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
:laugh::applause:
326.) Ar-mink - 02/06/2014
My bonus arrived a week earlier than expected :grin::grin: got the whole thing approved by the misses :grin::grin::grin: time to get serious about this.
327.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
:grin:
328.) DParker - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16199]got the whole thing approved by the misses[/QUOTE]
And there is no higher court of appeal, so....get buildin', Mister! :-)
And there is no higher court of appeal, so....get buildin', Mister! :-)
329.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16202]And there is no higher court of appeal, so....get buildin', Mister! :-)[/QUOTE]
No even mothers or heaven forbid mother-in-laws? Wife: "Sorry honey, I know I said yes the other day, but my mother said, "NO!!!" I did get us another cat instead."
No even mothers or heaven forbid mother-in-laws? Wife: "Sorry honey, I know I said yes the other day, but my mother said, "NO!!!" I did get us another cat instead."
330.) DParker - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16204]No even mothers or heaven forbid mother-in-laws? Wife: "Sorry honey, I know I said yes the other day, but my mother said, "NO!!!" I did get us another cat instead."[/QUOTE]
A mother-in-law veto? That would be an epicly bad precedent warranting a constitutional convention to prevent it from ever happening again.
A mother-in-law veto? That would be an epicly bad precedent warranting a constitutional convention to prevent it from ever happening again.
331.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16205]A mother-in-law veto? That would be an epicly bad precedent warranting a constitutional convention to prevent it from ever happening again.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. And hit hard and often with one's own veto gavel. Even preemptively.
We digressed from Ar-mink's banner day and American Hero status.
Agreed. And hit hard and often with one's own veto gavel. Even preemptively.
We digressed from Ar-mink's banner day and American Hero status.
332.) OKY - 02/06/2014
What ever you do, do NOT get that brand/part!:wave:
333.) DParker - 02/06/2014
[QUOTE=OKY;16208]What ever you do, do NOT get that brand/part!:wave:[/QUOTE]
Yeah...and for the love of all that is good and right, don't get it from that website!!!!
Yeah...and for the love of all that is good and right, don't get it from that website!!!!
334.) Floyd - 02/06/2014
And for sure be careful of that guys advise!!! Pete's sake, that was close.
335.) Swamp Fox - 02/07/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16176]It means you're SOL and need to pick something else.
[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is it's the next-worse thing to "infinite backorder." That's what I was afraid of.
[QUOTE=Jon;16177]Swampy, if you gave up after 5 minutes I can understand seeing one manufacturer being on unlimited backorder. Honestly, I could put together a custom build within an hour and have every component shipped to my house and have the gun built in less than 10 days, guaranteed.
Build the gun around a good barrel, start there. Build the lower around a quality trigger. Buy furniture to suit your needs. It's really easy now, order everything new OR go on one of the websites like gunbroker.com and buy used. In the amount of time we've been chatting about this, you could have had the darn thing broken in.[/QUOTE]
This is all makes sense. Hmmm....
What's wrong the rest of you losers?
[QUOTE=DParker;16178]You tell him, Jon!!!!! :grin:
Craig's List? Geez, man...you're just looking for commonly-available AR parts, not a set of door handles for your '65 Corvair restoration project.[/QUOTE]
See my last comment, LOL. And in my defense, it was Floyd who suggested Craig's list. :wink I'd like to just find a complete RRA lower with the two-stage trigger and an Ergo grip and be done with it, but nooo....
[QUOTE=Floyd;16179]I don't know Swampy.... I'm starting the question your sincerity, commitment, passion, dedication and AR-itude to your cause.[/QUOTE]
All of a sudden I'm starting to feel that you all are against me. But that's okay. Just don't question my tax return.
[QUOTE=DParker;16180]C'mon man. [I]All[/I] the cool kids are doin' it![/QUOTE]
Yup, I'm definitely feeling the pressure. On the other hand, if all the cool kids jumped off a bridge, does that mean I should too?
Wait...don't answer that...
[QUOTE=OKY;16181]He's not tactical enough.:grin:[/QUOTE]
That's what she said...
[QUOTE=Floyd;16182]Proposal --> Alternatives --> Excuses --> does not equal a result.
He may have a commitment problem though. I mean, it's not like he's buying more tree stand steps.[/QUOTE]
Actually I am. I double-dog dare you to climb them.
[QUOTE=DParker;16185]Now build an AR, or I shall taunt you a second time!
[/QUOTE]
Only a second time? I can handle that.
When I start feeling repressed, though, I will run away...Maybe buy a shrubbery...
[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is it's the next-worse thing to "infinite backorder." That's what I was afraid of.
[QUOTE=Jon;16177]Swampy, if you gave up after 5 minutes I can understand seeing one manufacturer being on unlimited backorder. Honestly, I could put together a custom build within an hour and have every component shipped to my house and have the gun built in less than 10 days, guaranteed.
Build the gun around a good barrel, start there. Build the lower around a quality trigger. Buy furniture to suit your needs. It's really easy now, order everything new OR go on one of the websites like gunbroker.com and buy used. In the amount of time we've been chatting about this, you could have had the darn thing broken in.[/QUOTE]
This is all makes sense. Hmmm....
What's wrong the rest of you losers?
[QUOTE=DParker;16178]You tell him, Jon!!!!! :grin:
Craig's List? Geez, man...you're just looking for commonly-available AR parts, not a set of door handles for your '65 Corvair restoration project.[/QUOTE]
See my last comment, LOL. And in my defense, it was Floyd who suggested Craig's list. :wink I'd like to just find a complete RRA lower with the two-stage trigger and an Ergo grip and be done with it, but nooo....
[QUOTE=Floyd;16179]I don't know Swampy.... I'm starting the question your sincerity, commitment, passion, dedication and AR-itude to your cause.[/QUOTE]
All of a sudden I'm starting to feel that you all are against me. But that's okay. Just don't question my tax return.
[QUOTE=DParker;16180]C'mon man. [I]All[/I] the cool kids are doin' it![/QUOTE]
Yup, I'm definitely feeling the pressure. On the other hand, if all the cool kids jumped off a bridge, does that mean I should too?
Wait...don't answer that...
[QUOTE=OKY;16181]He's not tactical enough.:grin:[/QUOTE]
That's what she said...
[QUOTE=Floyd;16182]Proposal --> Alternatives --> Excuses --> does not equal a result.
He may have a commitment problem though. I mean, it's not like he's buying more tree stand steps.[/QUOTE]
Actually I am. I double-dog dare you to climb them.
[QUOTE=DParker;16185]Now build an AR, or I shall taunt you a second time!
[/QUOTE]Only a second time? I can handle that.
When I start feeling repressed, though, I will run away...Maybe buy a shrubbery...
336.) Ar-mink - 02/07/2014
No mother n law veto here. She knows better.:-) also there may have been a deal, or let's call it a peace treaty that states if I use some of MY bonus to finish paying for the wife's schooling that I can build an AR.:grin:
337.) DParker - 02/07/2014
Look at Swampy, all multi-quotin' and stuff, like a boss. Impressive...but you are not a techie-nerd yet.
338.) Floyd - 02/07/2014
Double dog dare? Been there, done that and survived.
C'mon Swampy, getting an AR is not as hard as getting O'care. For sure less expensive.
C'mon Swampy, getting an AR is not as hard as getting O'care. For sure less expensive.
339.) Ar-mink - 02/07/2014
Any opinions on the difference between chrome lined and stainless barrels? I see a lot of the ARs built for varmint hunting have stainless barrels. I don't plan on (and can't afford) blasting thousands of rounds down range every year. How much life can you expect from each barrel?
340.) DParker - 02/07/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16272]Any opinions on the difference between chrome lined and stainless barrels? I see a lot of the ARs built for varmint hunting have stainless barrels. I don't plan on (and can't afford) blasting thousands of rounds down range every year. How much life can you expect from each barrel?[/QUOTE]
My understanding (based on reading, not personal experience) is that chrome lined barrels and modern stainless barrels (depending on the exact stainless used) for AR's are roughly equivalent in terms of resistance to bore wear, and therefor life consistency. And all other things being equal (manufacturing quality and whatnot) stainless gives you a little extra edge in the accuracy department, at least on theory. I say "in theory" because the reality depends on your own shooting skill and ability to realize the potential of the stainless barrel's inherent accuracy advantage. My gut hunch is that the average shooter would never notice the difference, but the dedicated precision shooter probably will.
The answer to your last question is, of course, "It depends"...on manufacturer, what kind of ammo you use, your cleaning regimen, etc. I think the current rule of thumb is to expect to be able to put at least 10K rounds through a quality .223/5.56 AR barrel before you begin seeing real accuracy degradation, with most people being able to go 12K-15K...or even a lot more rounds before seeing any significant throat erosion in the chamber. Of course your mileage will vary, possibly by quite a bit.
My understanding (based on reading, not personal experience) is that chrome lined barrels and modern stainless barrels (depending on the exact stainless used) for AR's are roughly equivalent in terms of resistance to bore wear, and therefor life consistency. And all other things being equal (manufacturing quality and whatnot) stainless gives you a little extra edge in the accuracy department, at least on theory. I say "in theory" because the reality depends on your own shooting skill and ability to realize the potential of the stainless barrel's inherent accuracy advantage. My gut hunch is that the average shooter would never notice the difference, but the dedicated precision shooter probably will.
The answer to your last question is, of course, "It depends"...on manufacturer, what kind of ammo you use, your cleaning regimen, etc. I think the current rule of thumb is to expect to be able to put at least 10K rounds through a quality .223/5.56 AR barrel before you begin seeing real accuracy degradation, with most people being able to go 12K-15K...or even a lot more rounds before seeing any significant throat erosion in the chamber. Of course your mileage will vary, possibly by quite a bit.
341.) OKY - 02/08/2014
I chose stainless mostly because the barrel was the chamber and gas length I was looking for. I cannot tell you why but the major barrel manufacturers seem to prefer making Wylde/National Match barrels in stainless.
342.) Ar-mink - 02/08/2014
Thanks DP and OKY, I'm leaning towards a stainless barrel right now just because it overall fits what I'm wanting. Still working on a lower, talked to a guy earlier that has a RRA lower with the 2 stage varmit trigger installed. I'm waiting for a call back on a for sure price.
343.) Floyd - 02/08/2014
:tu:
Soon, you will have the baddest AR ever. If you know what I mean.
Soon, you will have the baddest AR ever. If you know what I mean.
344.) DParker - 02/08/2014
No...[b][I]I'm[/I][/b] Spartacus!
345.) Ar-mink - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16285]:tu:
Soon, you will have the baddest AR ever. If you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]
I just hope a I can put together an AR that functions well enough to kill a coyote or two.
Soon, you will have the baddest AR ever. If you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]
I just hope a I can put together an AR that functions well enough to kill a coyote or two.
346.) DParker - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16287]I just hope a I can put together an AR that functions well enough to kill a coyote or two.[/QUOTE]
Mount a bayonet just to be sure. :-)
Mount a bayonet just to be sure. :-)
347.) Ar-mink - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16288]Mount a bayonet just to be sure. :-)[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about the grenade launcher
I was thinking about the grenade launcher
348.) Floyd - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16287]I just hope a I can put together an AR that functions well enough to kill a coyote or two.[/QUOTE]
You'll get'r done. :tu:
You'll get'r done. :tu:
349.) Deerminator - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16288]Mount a bayonet just to be sure. :-)[/QUOTE]
[B]
[SIZE=4]NOW YER TALK"N[/SIZE][/B]
[B]
[SIZE=4]NOW YER TALK"N[/SIZE][/B]
350.) DParker - 02/08/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16289]I was thinking about the grenade launcher[/QUOTE]
Arrrrr...I like the cut o' yer jib.
Arrrrr...I like the cut o' yer jib.
351.) Floyd - 02/08/2014
....get a room.
352.) Floyd - 02/08/2014
You just knew that was coming.
353.) Floyd - 02/09/2014
DParker, did you happen to see the Texas Flag AR Lower Receiver (stripped) on Texas Gun Talk?
354.) Ar-mink - 02/10/2014
Ordered my lower today... RRA lower with nm trigger and adj stock. $320 out the door.
355.) Ar-mink - 02/10/2014
[url]http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Rock_River_Arms_Complete_AR_15_Lower_Assembly_p/rra-ar0990c.htm[/url]
This on, except through a local guy
This on, except through a local guy
356.) Ar-mink - 02/10/2014
I had to pick between better trigger or better stock. Come to the conclusion that it will be easier and cheaper to replace the stock and grip later.
357.) Floyd - 02/10/2014
:tu::tu:
358.) DParker - 02/10/2014
Excellent! Someone not from the Carolinas made a move! :wink
Make sure to verify whether the buffer tube is "Mil-Spec" or "Commercial" (slight difference in dimensions) and write it down somewhere so you don't forget, as that will matter when you decide to replace the stock.
Make sure to verify whether the buffer tube is "Mil-Spec" or "Commercial" (slight difference in dimensions) and write it down somewhere so you don't forget, as that will matter when you decide to replace the stock.
359.) Jon - 02/10/2014
The Carolina connection is too caught up in talking about tires that will cost more than the truck he's putting them on. That won't happen either!:bang:
360.) Swamp Fox - 02/10/2014
LOL...That was EXACTLY my reaction when Deerminator mentioned the Mickey Thompsons....:p:laugh:
361.) Hunter - 02/11/2014
Well, I guess I'm jumping into the fray............ been wanting an AR for a while now. Been looking for a used one so there would be no paper trail (so to speak.) Reading this thread has just peaked the interest. There's a lot of good info here. Older gentleman that we have been giving deer to dropped one off recently for the us play with and use around the ranch. He builds a lot of them. Even though I would probably be the one who would use it most, I still wanted one of my own. So, I started talking with him and he has a couple of complete lowers for sale. He and I brokered a deal where I will trade him my old .270 (which Swampy ruined... but that's another story :grin:) for one of his lowers. He should be bringing it by next week!
Here's a pic of the ranch's rifle...... Spike's lower & Wilson Arms upper
[ATTACH=CONFIG]395[/ATTACH]
Here's a pic of the ranch's rifle...... Spike's lower & Wilson Arms upper
[ATTACH=CONFIG]395[/ATTACH]
362.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
Nice rifle.
What fray?
What fray?
363.) DParker - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;16407]Been looking for a used one so there would be no paper trail (so to speak.)[/quote]
Is that a knock on your door I hear?
[QUOTE=Hunter;16407]Here's a pic of the ranch's rifle...... Spike's lower & Wilson Arms upper
[ATTACH=CONFIG]395[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Looks good to me. No bayonet lug though, so expect to be hearing from Deerminator. :wink
Is that a knock on your door I hear?
[QUOTE=Hunter;16407]Here's a pic of the ranch's rifle...... Spike's lower & Wilson Arms upper
[ATTACH=CONFIG]395[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Looks good to me. No bayonet lug though, so expect to be hearing from Deerminator. :wink
364.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;16407]... He and I brokered a deal where I will trade him my old .270 (which Swampy ruined... but that's another story :grin:) for one of his lowers. He should be bringing it by next week!
[/QUOTE]
How did I get dragged into this? :wink
You must really want an AR. That was a nice .270. Very handy and a good trigger. If it didn't shoot east when I was pointing west it'd almost have been perfect. :p
:wave:
[/QUOTE]
How did I get dragged into this? :wink
You must really want an AR. That was a nice .270. Very handy and a good trigger. If it didn't shoot east when I was pointing west it'd almost have been perfect. :p
:wave:
365.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Oh, and for the record: I appreciated Deerminator's mention of the Mickey Thompsons. I just should have laid out my tire question a little better so big honkin' mud-boggin' tires in that price range weren't the first thing that came to mind if someone wanted to reply.
I have no doubt that they are up there with the best that could be recommended.
But back to ARs...
I have no doubt that they are up there with the best that could be recommended.
But back to ARs...
366.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16421]Oh, and for the record: I appreciated Deerminator's mention of the Mickey Thompsons. I just should have laid out my tire question a little better so big honkin' mud-boggin' tires in that price range weren't the first thing that came to mind if someone wanted to reply.
I have no doubt that they are up there with the best that could be recommended.
But back to ARs...[/QUOTE]
Nice podunking, you even mentioned AR. Sweet. Since the weather is going to get bad again, you didn't actually happen to buy tires for the occasion did you? Oh wait, there for mud. Never mind.
Who's looking to get one of them funky New York style AR's?
I have no doubt that they are up there with the best that could be recommended.
But back to ARs...[/QUOTE]
Nice podunking, you even mentioned AR. Sweet. Since the weather is going to get bad again, you didn't actually happen to buy tires for the occasion did you? Oh wait, there for mud. Never mind.
Who's looking to get one of them funky New York style AR's?
367.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16424]Nice podunking, you even mentioned AR. Sweet...[/QUOTE]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]396[/ATTACH]
Thank you! Thank you very much...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]396[/ATTACH]
Thank you! Thank you very much...
368.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16428][ATTACH=CONFIG]396[/ATTACH]
Thank you! Thank you very much...[/QUOTE]
Failed!!! :bang::td: You didn't mention AR.
I bet Elvis would have had an AR; full auto too. All rhinestone studded and all.
Thank you! Thank you very much...[/QUOTE]
Failed!!! :bang::td: You didn't mention AR.
I bet Elvis would have had an AR; full auto too. All rhinestone studded and all.
369.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Well, you got me there...:-)
You wouldn't happen to know what your half quad rails handguards run weight-wise, would you? Weights are not on the RRA site that I can find. I'd really like the weight of their [I]Advanced[/I] version (more cutouts and some checkering) if someone can find that. The other handguard that is in the running is BC's Key Mod, for weight and because I like the idea behind them.
You wouldn't happen to know what your half quad rails handguards run weight-wise, would you? Weights are not on the RRA site that I can find. I'd really like the weight of their [I]Advanced[/I] version (more cutouts and some checkering) if someone can find that. The other handguard that is in the running is BC's Key Mod, for weight and because I like the idea behind them.
370.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16432]Well, you got me there...:-)
You wouldn't happen to know what your half quad rails handguards run weight-wise, would you? Weights are not on the RRA site that I can find. I'd really like the weight of their [I]Advanced[/I] version (more cutouts and some checkering) if someone can find that. The other handguard that is in the running is BC's Key Mod, for weight and because I like the idea behind them.[/QUOTE]
Call them up. They are nice people. Very helpful. If the advance version is lighter, get them. There will be lighter handguards then those RRA half rails out there. I like them because they are extremely study and will take abuse.
You wouldn't happen to know what your half quad rails handguards run weight-wise, would you? Weights are not on the RRA site that I can find. I'd really like the weight of their [I]Advanced[/I] version (more cutouts and some checkering) if someone can find that. The other handguard that is in the running is BC's Key Mod, for weight and because I like the idea behind them.[/QUOTE]
Call them up. They are nice people. Very helpful. If the advance version is lighter, get them. There will be lighter handguards then those RRA half rails out there. I like them because they are extremely study and will take abuse.
371.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
I have an email pending with them as of yesterday. :tu:
I've have read some whining about the weight on the internet (even about the Advanced), but have found no indication how much heavier they are than "the usual." I'm inclined to try them.
I've have read some whining about the weight on the internet (even about the Advanced), but have found no indication how much heavier they are than "the usual." I'm inclined to try them.
372.) DParker - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16424]Who's looking to get one of them funky New York style AR's?[/QUOTE]
A little more on that...
[URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/370733/manufacturers-change-look-ar-15-rifle-now-legal-new-york-state-charles-c-w-cooke"]Manufacturers Change Look of AR-15; Rifle Is Now Legal in New York State[/URL]
The opening line says it all:
[quote]Pass a stupid law, get a stupid result.[/quote]
And the "shoulder thing that goes up" crowd still can't figure it out.
As an aside, further down in the comments was this gem... :wink
[quote]It has already started at Cabela's Sporting Goods.
When I was ready to pay for my purchases of ammunition...
The cashier said, "Strip down, facing me" Making a mental note to complain to the NRA about the gun control whackos running amok, I did just as she had instructed.
When the hysterical shrieking and alarms finally subsided, I found out that she was referring to how I should place my credit card in the card-reader.
I have been asked to shop elsewhere in the future.
They need to make their instructions to us seniors a little clearer![/quote]
A little more on that...
[URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/370733/manufacturers-change-look-ar-15-rifle-now-legal-new-york-state-charles-c-w-cooke"]Manufacturers Change Look of AR-15; Rifle Is Now Legal in New York State[/URL]
The opening line says it all:
[quote]Pass a stupid law, get a stupid result.[/quote]
And the "shoulder thing that goes up" crowd still can't figure it out.
As an aside, further down in the comments was this gem... :wink
[quote]It has already started at Cabela's Sporting Goods.
When I was ready to pay for my purchases of ammunition...
The cashier said, "Strip down, facing me" Making a mental note to complain to the NRA about the gun control whackos running amok, I did just as she had instructed.
When the hysterical shrieking and alarms finally subsided, I found out that she was referring to how I should place my credit card in the card-reader.
I have been asked to shop elsewhere in the future.
They need to make their instructions to us seniors a little clearer![/quote]
373.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
LMAO...:grin:
374.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16439]I have an email pending with them as of yesterday. :tu:
I've have read some whining about the weight on the internet (even about the Advanced), but have found no indication how much heavier they are than "the usual." I'm inclined to try them.[/QUOTE]
Yep. I saw a lot of those posts as well. Whiners will whine and for no damn reason too. For what, a few ounces? Crap, I say, cowboy up!. Fricken quibble over a pound or two. Hey dumb ass weigh that hunting rifle you've been lugging around before you got that AR. Oh crap is right. About the same, a little more?
"But, it's heavy....(whiny voice)." Buck up soldier...
Anyway, I saw where some are drilling dimples into the barrels. Looks pretty sharp too. That should shave some weight for you Swampy.
I've have read some whining about the weight on the internet (even about the Advanced), but have found no indication how much heavier they are than "the usual." I'm inclined to try them.[/QUOTE]
Yep. I saw a lot of those posts as well. Whiners will whine and for no damn reason too. For what, a few ounces? Crap, I say, cowboy up!. Fricken quibble over a pound or two. Hey dumb ass weigh that hunting rifle you've been lugging around before you got that AR. Oh crap is right. About the same, a little more?
"But, it's heavy....(whiny voice)." Buck up soldier...
Anyway, I saw where some are drilling dimples into the barrels. Looks pretty sharp too. That should shave some weight for you Swampy.
375.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
"Pass a stupid law, get a stupid result." Yes, but I'd image as time goes on, there will be a more desirable result. 'MERICA!!!
But, the stupid people getting a clue would be a more desirable outcome.
But, the stupid people getting a clue would be a more desirable outcome.
376.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Okay, here's a new question. I know everybody's body is different but I'm guessing stock fit (position of cheek weld to top of receiver) is standard with plug-in AR stocks.
A red-dot like an Aimpoint is going to sit lower than a heads-up/halo sight, correct? Unless there are rings/bases to raise it if necessary. Are people settting up their optics with any particular base heights more functional than others? I'll take info on telescopic sight bases as well. I like to get down on the stock and am used to (on my bolt rifles) low or medium mounts on straight classic stocks, if that helps.
This rifle will get a red dot or a halo first, and then I'll find some uses for a scope. I doubt I will set up any open sights, at least on this rifle. Not ruling out a two-[B]optics[/B] format, though.
A red-dot like an Aimpoint is going to sit lower than a heads-up/halo sight, correct? Unless there are rings/bases to raise it if necessary. Are people settting up their optics with any particular base heights more functional than others? I'll take info on telescopic sight bases as well. I like to get down on the stock and am used to (on my bolt rifles) low or medium mounts on straight classic stocks, if that helps.
This rifle will get a red dot or a halo first, and then I'll find some uses for a scope. I doubt I will set up any open sights, at least on this rifle. Not ruling out a two-[B]optics[/B] format, though.
377.) Jon - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16446]
This rifle will get a red dot or a halo first, and then I'll find some uses for a scope. I doubt I will set up any open sights, at least on this rifle. Not ruling out a two-[B]optics[/B] format, though.[/QUOTE]
OK, so this rifle is a GO? You are saying right here and now that you are actually purchasing said rifle? On record?
This rifle will get a red dot or a halo first, and then I'll find some uses for a scope. I doubt I will set up any open sights, at least on this rifle. Not ruling out a two-[B]optics[/B] format, though.[/QUOTE]
OK, so this rifle is a GO? You are saying right here and now that you are actually purchasing said rifle? On record?
378.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
LOL...
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.
You people must think I just like asking a lot of questions for no good reason...:wink
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.
You people must think I just like asking a lot of questions for no good reason...:wink
379.) bluecat - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16450]LOL...
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.
[/QUOTE]
So did Liberace.
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.
[/QUOTE]
So did Liberace.
380.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
LOL...Was gonna say "spinning a lot of plates" but I had a lapse in judgment...
:groan:
:-)
:groan:
:-)
381.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
I have mine set up for iron sights, an aimpoint and a scope. No. Not at the same time.
My set up is, my nose three fingers off the charging handle no matter what sights are used.
In other words, I place my index, middle and ring fingers across the stock behind the charging handle. The same way I did it with my M16 with the carring handle.
The aimpoint and scope are at the same heights and the iron sights co- witness with the aimpoint.
My set up is, my nose three fingers off the charging handle no matter what sights are used.
In other words, I place my index, middle and ring fingers across the stock behind the charging handle. The same way I did it with my M16 with the carring handle.
The aimpoint and scope are at the same heights and the iron sights co- witness with the aimpoint.
382.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Do you remember what base height you used for the scope to match the Aimpoint? I am not able to look at my Aimpoint right now to hazard a guess, but I would suspect medium. It was whatever came with the sight, probably. Meaning I don't [I]think[/I] I had to go shopping for it separately.
383.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
[url]http://www.burrisoptics.com/arpepr.html[/url]
I have the QD mount.
Dan set me up real nice with the scope and mount combo.
I've learn that if Dan, Jon or Billy say to get something,you get it.
I have the QD mount.
Dan set me up real nice with the scope and mount combo.
I've learn that if Dan, Jon or Billy say to get something,you get it.
384.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Cool. QD mounts were gonna be my next question. :wink
385.) Floyd - 02/11/2014
Yes. QDs and flip up sights. Shooting steel reactive prairie dogs at 300 yards all day long.
Your AR in your hands yet?
Your AR in your hands yet?
386.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Not yet. I expect I'll be ordering stuff within the next week or so.
387.) Jon - 02/11/2014
Before or after the $1000 worth of mud tires?
388.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Unfortunately, I think they have to get done at the same time....On top of some other things.
389.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
Rock River wouldn't even hazard a guess on a delivery date for Plan A, though...
390.) DParker - 02/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16450]LOL...
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.[/QUOTE]
I figured you were still in the middle of making those TX chili recipes you were going to try back in October ([URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?675-Texas-Chili-Recipes-Wanted&p=11873&viewfull=1#post11873"]http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?675-Texas-Chili-Recipes-Wanted&p=11873&viewfull=1#post11873[/URL]). :wink
Yes. I'm about 90% there. Just juggling a lot of balls right now.[/QUOTE]
I figured you were still in the middle of making those TX chili recipes you were going to try back in October ([URL="http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?675-Texas-Chili-Recipes-Wanted&p=11873&viewfull=1#post11873"]http://forums.huntingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?675-Texas-Chili-Recipes-Wanted&p=11873&viewfull=1#post11873[/URL]). :wink
391.) Swamp Fox - 02/11/2014
LOL...I haven't forgotten...Perfecting a pickled heart and a chicken-fried steak got in the way, though.
Plus Bluecat is still waiting a couple of months for some pictures of a deer decoy I have in deep storage...
So, by comparison, the AR project is moving along at warp speed. :-)
Plus Bluecat is still waiting a couple of months for some pictures of a deer decoy I have in deep storage...
So, by comparison, the AR project is moving along at warp speed. :-)
392.) Jon - 02/12/2014
Bookmark this DP, we'll be bringing it back from the dead in a few years.......
393.) DParker - 02/12/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16505]Bookmark this DP, we'll be bringing it back from the dead in a few years.......[/QUOTE]
I just want to see pics of him eating a bowl of spicy TX chili while sitting at his new reloading bench.
I just want to see pics of him eating a bowl of spicy TX chili while sitting at his new reloading bench.
394.) Swamp Fox - 02/12/2014
:bad:
LOL...
Just wait...I might surprise everyone. :-)
LOL...
Just wait...I might surprise everyone. :-)
395.) DParker - 02/12/2014
...with the girl he picked up at the Piggly Wiggly.
396.) bluecat - 02/12/2014
please wear clothes
397.) Floyd - 02/12/2014
...his cat hoarding claim is more believable?
398.) Jon - 02/12/2014
DP, neither of us are young enough to see that accomplishment come to fruition
399.) Swamp Fox - 02/12/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16510]...with the girl he picked up at the Piggly Wiggly.[/QUOTE]
Please!....I've upgraded to the Harris Teeter. A better class of women.
Wait...
Maybe [B]that's [/B]the problem...
LMAO
Please!....I've upgraded to the Harris Teeter. A better class of women.
Wait...
Maybe [B]that's [/B]the problem...
LMAO
400.) bluecat - 02/12/2014
:-)
Do like the bowfishers do. Aim low.
Do like the bowfishers do. Aim low.
401.) Swamp Fox - 02/12/2014
I'm told that it's all the same in the vegetable aisle, but I'm not sure I've hit rock bottom yet...
:wink
:wink
402.) bluecat - 02/12/2014
If she's fondling the cucumbers then she's a possibility. If she's picking through the sprouts you might want to save yourself the aggravation.
403.) DParker - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16552]Please!....I've upgraded to the Harris Teeter. A better class of women.
Wait...
Maybe [B]that's [/B]the problem...
LMAO[/QUOTE]
This is what we in the biz refer to as "expectations management".
Wait...
Maybe [B]that's [/B]the problem...
LMAO[/QUOTE]
This is what we in the biz refer to as "expectations management".
404.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16557]Thi. is what we in the biz refer to as "expectations management".[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, the old standard: if you're going to be shot down in flames, go big.
Oh yes, the old standard: if you're going to be shot down in flames, go big.
405.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Some places I spend time, Piggly Wiggly is the only game in town. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
I'm not proud.
:p
I'm not proud.
:p
406.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16560]Some places I spend time, Piggly Wiggly is the only game in town. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
I'm not proud.
:p[/QUOTE]
"And I'm not proud of my address,
In a torn-up town, no postcode envy"
No "gold teeth, grey goose, trippin' in the bathroom"
I'm not proud.
:p[/QUOTE]
"And I'm not proud of my address,
In a torn-up town, no postcode envy"
No "gold teeth, grey goose, trippin' in the bathroom"
407.) DParker - 02/13/2014
Just remember the immortal words of Delta House's Boon...
"Now, she should be good-looking, but we're willing to trade looks for a certain... morally casual attitude."
"Now, she should be good-looking, but we're willing to trade looks for a certain... morally casual attitude."
408.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
I'm thinking Swampy's "no" answers to the piggly wiggly girl's AR questions may have cause his recent motivation. Hard to beat a female's instincts.
409.) BULLZ-i - 02/13/2014
[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/mKBy09/media/Emoticons%20and%20GIFs/sleepy.gif.html]
[/URL]
[/URL]410.) Deerminator - 02/13/2014
:nta:
411.) bluecat - 02/13/2014
Go to the cat food aisle. That's where the lowly go for comfort. If you see a potential prospect run over to her/him (not that there is anything wrong with that) and say "Have you looked at the ingredients in Friskies lately?" "Animal byproducts? "Soybean meal?" "Who do they think they are foolin' up in here?".
Immediately you will bond in your quest to raise super cats.
Immediately you will bond in your quest to raise super cats.
412.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=BULLZ-i;16564][URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/mKBy09/media/Emoticons%20and%20GIFs/sleepy.gif.html][/URL][/QUOTE]
Is this a cry for help, or just a request for more polka music?
:grin:
[/URL][/QUOTE]Is this a cry for help, or just a request for more polka music?
:grin:
413.) Ar-mink - 02/17/2014
Not trying to distract the topic from how to pick up crazy cat lady's or anything. But... Anyone have any experience with White Oak Armaments uppers? From reading some of the AR forums it seems like the woa is just the cats meow of varmint uppers. They are priced cheaper than the RRA uppers but when I called them they have a 12-16 week wait right now. I'm in no hurry but anyone have any thoughts on these?
414.) Floyd - 02/26/2014
[COLOR="#0000FF"]Swampy, this idea will help reduce weight on your AR: [/COLOR]
[url]http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/matt-in-fl/daily-digest-225/[/url]
[url]http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/matt-in-fl/daily-digest-225/[/url]
415.) bluecat - 02/26/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;17186][COLOR="#0000FF"]Swampy, this idea will help reduce weight on your AR: [/COLOR]
Is he really that weak?
Is he really that weak?
416.) Ventilator - 02/26/2014
That wasn't much of a rock/dirt test on that lower. Id like to see larry Vickers on tactv put it thru the same chit that the Daniel Defense firearms were subjected to. Doubtful swampy would be running around in the sc swamp mud diving in puddles to shoot rabbits with it tho. So it should be GTG! :grin:
417.) Hunter - 02/26/2014
...back to issue of flip-up iron sights....... if you wanted optics as well as sights, what kind of mounts would you suggest?
418.) DParker - 02/26/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;17198]...back to issue of flip-up iron sights....... if you wanted optics as well as sights, what kind of mounts would you suggest?[/QUOTE]
What kind of optic(s)? Once you settle on that then you can try finding mounts that will allow you to "co-witness" the optic with your BUIS ([B]B[/B]ack[B]U[/B]p [B]I[/B]ron [B]S[/B]ights).
And while flip-up functionality is nice on rear sights it's a waste of extra money on front sights. The front post will simply never make a meaningful difference in what you see through your optic, and is just one more mechanical thing to pointlessly futz with.
What kind of optic(s)? Once you settle on that then you can try finding mounts that will allow you to "co-witness" the optic with your BUIS ([B]B[/B]ack[B]U[/B]p [B]I[/B]ron [B]S[/B]ights).
And while flip-up functionality is nice on rear sights it's a waste of extra money on front sights. The front post will simply never make a meaningful difference in what you see through your optic, and is just one more mechanical thing to pointlessly futz with.
419.) Floyd - 02/26/2014
If you are hard on stuff, reconsider plastic.
420.) Forkie McRut - 02/26/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;16819]Not trying to distract the topic from how to pick up crazy cat lady's or anything. But... Anyone have any experience with White Oak Armaments uppers? From reading some of the AR forums it seems like the woa is just the cats meow of varmint uppers. They are priced cheaper than the RRA uppers but when I called them they have a 12-16 week wait right now. I'm in no hurry but anyone have any thoughts on these?[/QUOTE]
Sorry it's a week late. Just saw this post. I do not have direct experience with a WOA upper, but have read the forums as well and they get a lot of praise. A friend of mine just got a WOA in 6.8SPC that is giving him sub-MOA accuracy with hand loads. He's very pleased. He waited just shy of a year for it.
Sorry it's a week late. Just saw this post. I do not have direct experience with a WOA upper, but have read the forums as well and they get a lot of praise. A friend of mine just got a WOA in 6.8SPC that is giving him sub-MOA accuracy with hand loads. He's very pleased. He waited just shy of a year for it.
421.) Ventilator - 02/27/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;17198]...back to issue of flip-up iron sights....... if you wanted optics as well as sights, what kind of mounts would you suggest?[/QUOTE]
you can always go with a 45 Degree angle side mount on the forearm rail for the optic. This will allow your iron sights to work normal and with a slight rotation you can use a reflex sight. I use this setup on my .223. Yankee Hill Mfg makes a rail mount for this . I think its about 40 bucks. On mine , I have the scope on top rail and the reflex at a 45. Ive seen some 3 gunners using this setup before. Very effective and I like it better that using the sight-thru options that require an elevated optic.
you can always go with a 45 Degree angle side mount on the forearm rail for the optic. This will allow your iron sights to work normal and with a slight rotation you can use a reflex sight. I use this setup on my .223. Yankee Hill Mfg makes a rail mount for this . I think its about 40 bucks. On mine , I have the scope on top rail and the reflex at a 45. Ive seen some 3 gunners using this setup before. Very effective and I like it better that using the sight-thru options that require an elevated optic.
422.) Ventilator - 02/27/2014
[url]http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XDD15000&groupid=84[/url]
423.) DParker - 02/27/2014
The 45° mount is nice if your reflex is mounted as a 2nd optic, as in your setup, but is completely unnecessary if you only have one optic. Set it up to co-witness with your BUIS and both are usable.
424.) Ventilator - 02/27/2014
mine is as a second optic, but I wouldn't say its completely unnecessary. Some folks prefer a reflex over iron sights. With the tritium version from Trijicon , I can see the benefit of having it over/along with iron sights even without magnification. Now if you could find a long eye relief /ACOG style optic that would fit on the 45 , that could be an even better option. Im just not a big fan of elevated optic sight thru systems.
Unless, you are referring to mounting on the same rail as your irons. In that case, I agree completely.
Unless, you are referring to mounting on the same rail as your irons. In that case, I agree completely.
425.) DParker - 02/27/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;17225]Unless, you are referring to mounting on the same rail as your irons. In that case, I agree completely.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am. That's what "co-witnessing" means. You mount the optic so that it can be sighted through when the rear BUIS is deployed. In fact that's probably the most common method of mounting a non-magnifying optic (and even some low-magnification ones) on an AR, and is the reason I mounted my rear magnifier on a pivot, so that I can swing it out of the way if I need to use my co-witnessed BUIS through my red dot tube.
Yes, I am. That's what "co-witnessing" means. You mount the optic so that it can be sighted through when the rear BUIS is deployed. In fact that's probably the most common method of mounting a non-magnifying optic (and even some low-magnification ones) on an AR, and is the reason I mounted my rear magnifier on a pivot, so that I can swing it out of the way if I need to use my co-witnessed BUIS through my red dot tube.
426.) Ventilator - 02/27/2014
YUP, hence the edit. I wasn't really paying that close attention the first time I read thru your post. sorry. :tu:
427.) Ar-mink - 02/28/2014
Welp I have finally done it.
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/BC2E5FDC-9000-4AE3-B4A2-3178491220B9_zpshy6jqhqt.jpg.html]
[/URL]
RRA lower with NM 2-stage trigger. I went with the fixed stock over the adjustable because I could get it quicker and I was already planning on upgrading it down the road.
Upper is a JSE reciever with a wilson .223 wylde 18" SS 1/8 twist barrel with a UTG Pro 2 piece hand guard.
Just got it assembled today, haven't been able to shoot it other than the one I fired to make sure it goes boom.
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/BC2E5FDC-9000-4AE3-B4A2-3178491220B9_zpshy6jqhqt.jpg.html]
[/URL]RRA lower with NM 2-stage trigger. I went with the fixed stock over the adjustable because I could get it quicker and I was already planning on upgrading it down the road.
Upper is a JSE reciever with a wilson .223 wylde 18" SS 1/8 twist barrel with a UTG Pro 2 piece hand guard.
Just got it assembled today, haven't been able to shoot it other than the one I fired to make sure it goes boom.
428.) DParker - 02/28/2014
[QUOTE=Ar-mink;17271]Welp I have finally done it.
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/BC2E5FDC-9000-4AE3-B4A2-3178491220B9_zpshy6jqhqt.jpg.html][/URL]
RRA lower with NM 2-stage trigger. I went with the fixed stock over the adjustable because I could get it quicker and I was already planning on upgrading it down the road.
Upper is a JSE reciever with a wilson .223 wylde 18" SS 1/8 twist barrel with a UTG Pro 2 piece hand guard.
Just got it assembled today, haven't been able to shoot it other than the one I fired to make sure it goes boom.[/QUOTE]
Nice to see that [I]someone[/I] actually pulled the trigger (pun intended). :wink
Looks like a good platform. Now put some sort of sights/optic on it and give us a range report. :tu:
[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/armink2/media/BC2E5FDC-9000-4AE3-B4A2-3178491220B9_zpshy6jqhqt.jpg.html]
[/URL]RRA lower with NM 2-stage trigger. I went with the fixed stock over the adjustable because I could get it quicker and I was already planning on upgrading it down the road.
Upper is a JSE reciever with a wilson .223 wylde 18" SS 1/8 twist barrel with a UTG Pro 2 piece hand guard.
Just got it assembled today, haven't been able to shoot it other than the one I fired to make sure it goes boom.[/QUOTE]
Nice to see that [I]someone[/I] actually pulled the trigger (pun intended). :wink
Looks like a good platform. Now put some sort of sights/optic on it and give us a range report. :tu:
429.) Ar-mink - 02/28/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;17272]Nice to see that [I]someone[/I] actually pulled the trigger (pun intended). :wink
Looks like a good platform. Now put some sort of sights/optic on it and give us a range report. :tu:[/QUOTE]
It's just so happens that I have a luepold 4x12 that's needs to be put on something. Hopefully I get put a few rounds through it this weekend.
Looks like a good platform. Now put some sort of sights/optic on it and give us a range report. :tu:[/QUOTE]
It's just so happens that I have a luepold 4x12 that's needs to be put on something. Hopefully I get put a few rounds through it this weekend.
430.) Floyd - 02/28/2014
That's the baddest. Well done.
431.) Ar-mink - 02/28/2014
Any thoughts on barrel break in?
The upper came with a paper that recommends cleaning barrel after every shot for the 1st 25 rounds then cleaning after every 10 shots for 100 rounds. I've tried to read up on the subject on some other forums but it seems everyone has an opinion about it ranging from barrel break in is a ploy from the manufacturer to make us wear out our barrels sooner to follow it to a T and then some.
The upper came with a paper that recommends cleaning barrel after every shot for the 1st 25 rounds then cleaning after every 10 shots for 100 rounds. I've tried to read up on the subject on some other forums but it seems everyone has an opinion about it ranging from barrel break in is a ploy from the manufacturer to make us wear out our barrels sooner to follow it to a T and then some.
432.) DParker - 02/28/2014
I've never bought into the "barrel break-in" routine, at least as far as the ritual cleaning between shots goes. This is mostly because I've never heard any plausible reason given for it beyond the usual, "Everyone knows you need to do it" that justifies doing things that there's no known reason for. Give it one good cleaning before your first range trip and then put 100 rounds or so through it to wear down any machining marks and then clean it (and oil it) before putting it back in the safe. Vioala...a "broken in" barrel.
Here's a more authoritative view on the matter.
[url]http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=14760[/url]
Here's a more authoritative view on the matter.
[url]http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=14760[/url]
433.) Forkie McRut - 02/28/2014
Nice looking rifle Mink. I like the 1 in 8 twist with the Wylde chamber myself
Now, has anybody informed you that it is actually illegal to own just one?
Now, has anybody informed you that it is actually illegal to own just one?
434.) Ar-mink - 02/28/2014
[QUOTE=Forkie McRut;17277]Nice looking rifle Mink. I like the 1 in 8 twist with the Wylde chamber myself
Now, has anybody informed you that it is actually illegal to own just one?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I'm looking at the Remington R25 In 7mm-08 as my next one.
Now, has anybody informed you that it is actually illegal to own just one?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I'm looking at the Remington R25 In 7mm-08 as my next one.
435.) Ar-mink - 02/28/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;17276]I've never bought into the "barrel break-in" routine, at least as far as the ritual cleaning between shots goes. This is mostly because I've never heard any plausible reason given for it beyond the usual, "Everyone knows you need to do it" that justifies doing things that there's no known reason for. Give it one good cleaning before your first range trip and then put 100 rounds or so through it to wear down any machining marks and then clean it (and oil it) before putting it back in the safe. Vioala...a "broken in" barrel.
Here's a more authoritative view on the matter.
[url]http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=14760[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks as always! I was thinking about cleaning after every 10 shots or so.
Here's a more authoritative view on the matter.
[url]http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=14760[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks as always! I was thinking about cleaning after every 10 shots or so.
436.) Swamp Fox - 02/28/2014
On the other hand, I'm a proponent of breaking in a new barrel. It's possible I have a rifle or two which came with specific instructions from the manufacturer to use a break-in process (there certainly are barrel makers out there who recommend it) but it's more likely that I picked it up from the benchrest shooters who haunt my gun club. If it's good enough for those rifle cranks, it's good enough for this one. In any event, I picked up the habit long ago and feel I've reaped the rewards, which are confidence that my barrel is in primo condition, and easier cleaning.
The justification for a break-in is to polish the throat (especially) which, when new, strips a significant amount of copper at each shot to foul the barrel. This copper will build up on top of itself, which of course is undesirable. Thus the clean-after-every-shot-for a-while routine.
Different barrels may/will break in differently/more easily because of their material and/or manufacture. I put no less than ten shots down the pipe on any new rifle, cleaning after each one, before even considering switching routines. Then I'll clean after every three for a while.
The justification for a break-in is to polish the throat (especially) which, when new, strips a significant amount of copper at each shot to foul the barrel. This copper will build up on top of itself, which of course is undesirable. Thus the clean-after-every-shot-for a-while routine.
Different barrels may/will break in differently/more easily because of their material and/or manufacture. I put no less than ten shots down the pipe on any new rifle, cleaning after each one, before even considering switching routines. Then I'll clean after every three for a while.
437.) Ventilator - 02/28/2014
Well, that is a nice rifle . congrats!
As for breakin....the fine folks over on [url]www.snipershide.com[/url] recommend against cleaning or breaking in a barrel. they go along with about what Dp said. Clean it after the first 20-25 shots . Then don't clean it until 4-500 rounds later unless you see accuracy drop off. These guys are professional competitors with 5k-8k in there rifles. Sounds reasonable from both sides of the opinions tho.
As for breakin....the fine folks over on [url]www.snipershide.com[/url] recommend against cleaning or breaking in a barrel. they go along with about what Dp said. Clean it after the first 20-25 shots . Then don't clean it until 4-500 rounds later unless you see accuracy drop off. These guys are professional competitors with 5k-8k in there rifles. Sounds reasonable from both sides of the opinions tho.
438.) DParker - 02/28/2014
But eliminating fouling (copper and/or lead build up), while it will likely increase you potential for accuracy during that initial range session, is not doing anythin to the barrel itself. The only "breaking in" (which by definition involves some sort of permanent physical alterarion of the barrel) that is occuring is the wearing down by those chunks of metal you're putting through it at very high velocities - of any raised material left from the machining process. The removal of fouling isn't altering the barrel geometry, nor do I see any real way for it to facilitate the process.
439.) Ventilator - 02/28/2014
Its also worth noting they say at least 100 rds must be ran thru the barrel for optimum accuracy to be perceived.
440.) DParker - 02/28/2014
I will add that the only real benefit of the "fire-one-shot-then-clean" routine that I've heard is explained by someone at Krieger Barrels:
[url]http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm[/url]
But the potential benefit is not facilitating "break in" of the barrel, but rather preventing copper build-up that "may be" difficult to remove later. And even with that they end with...
[quote]"Finally, the best way to tell if the barrel is broken in is to observe the patches; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. [B]This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots[/B], and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. [B]Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.[/B]"[/quote]
So while there may be some benefit to the inter-shot cleaning, it's not in breaking in the barrel, nor is the blind carrying out of the aforementioned set formula advised. And note that the "not a completely benign procedure" statement above includes the fact that, unless you're using a bore guide, dragging a cleaning rod and whetever you have at the end of it over your barrel's throat and crown has the potential for more damage to accuracy than any benefit from repetitive cleaning every round.
[url]http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm[/url]
But the potential benefit is not facilitating "break in" of the barrel, but rather preventing copper build-up that "may be" difficult to remove later. And even with that they end with...
[quote]"Finally, the best way to tell if the barrel is broken in is to observe the patches; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. [B]This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots[/B], and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. [B]Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.[/B]"[/quote]
So while there may be some benefit to the inter-shot cleaning, it's not in breaking in the barrel, nor is the blind carrying out of the aforementioned set formula advised. And note that the "not a completely benign procedure" statement above includes the fact that, unless you're using a bore guide, dragging a cleaning rod and whetever you have at the end of it over your barrel's throat and crown has the potential for more damage to accuracy than any benefit from repetitive cleaning every round.
441.) DParker - 02/28/2014
More good explanations of why the obsessive cleaning between shots is not desirable:
[url]http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn_II.asp[/url]
Note that Gale McMillan was a world record-holding competition rifle shooter.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but my cheap (< $400) Savage 111 and my son's equally cheap 110 both shoot sub-moa with neither of them having been subject to the ritual under discussion.
[url]http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn_II.asp[/url]
Note that Gale McMillan was a world record-holding competition rifle shooter.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but my cheap (< $400) Savage 111 and my son's equally cheap 110 both shoot sub-moa with neither of them having been subject to the ritual under discussion.
442.) Floyd - 02/28/2014
"Now there’s a powder that promises to deter copper fouling while you shoot. Hodgdon’s new CFE223 (CFE stands for Copper Fouling Eraser) will benefit everyone but particularly competition guys, varminters, AR fanatics and big game hunters who spend a lot of time at the range."
Read more: [url]http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/10/11/hodgdon-cfe223-fights-copper-fouling/#ixzz2uddmk281[/url]
Read more: [url]http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/10/11/hodgdon-cfe223-fights-copper-fouling/#ixzz2uddmk281[/url]
443.) Floyd - 02/28/2014
I like Rock Rivers Arms' (RRA) position:
Since it has already been lapped and test-fired/cleaned, no real break in is necessary or recommended.
For the purists who insist some sort of break-in is required, we suggest a very abbreviated version of it:
10 rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch between each round.
10 more rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch after rounds three, seven, and ten.
Final 10 rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch after the fifth and tenth rounds.
You shouldn't have to spend several hundred dollars, umpteen hours, and use-up a quarter of your barrel's life just breaking it in.
Steve/RRA
The little card that came with the rifle said, Your rifle has already been lapped and test-fired/cleaned, no real break in is necessary or recommended. Clean your firearm before the first use. Your firearm has been treated at the factory to prevent corrosion. The chamber, bore, and exterior surfaces must be cleaned to remove excess oil.
Run a patch through the barrel, shoot and enjoy. (Then there's the pesky sighting in process too)
Since it has already been lapped and test-fired/cleaned, no real break in is necessary or recommended.
For the purists who insist some sort of break-in is required, we suggest a very abbreviated version of it:
10 rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch between each round.
10 more rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch after rounds three, seven, and ten.
Final 10 rounds: Single load and fire, cleaning the bore with a lightly oiled patch after the fifth and tenth rounds.
You shouldn't have to spend several hundred dollars, umpteen hours, and use-up a quarter of your barrel's life just breaking it in.
Steve/RRA
The little card that came with the rifle said, Your rifle has already been lapped and test-fired/cleaned, no real break in is necessary or recommended. Clean your firearm before the first use. Your firearm has been treated at the factory to prevent corrosion. The chamber, bore, and exterior surfaces must be cleaned to remove excess oil.
Run a patch through the barrel, shoot and enjoy. (Then there's the pesky sighting in process too)
444.) Jon - 02/28/2014
Umm, buying/building a new rifle is supposed to be FUN, go shoot the damn thing and make it fun! You aren't hurting it by shooting it, if that's the case, why have the thing in the first place.
Clean it after you shoot it
Clean it after you shoot it
445.) Floyd - 02/28/2014
:beer:
446.) Forkie McRut - 02/28/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;17288]"Now there’s a powder that promises to deter copper fouling while you shoot. Hodgdon’s new CFE223 (CFE stands for Copper Fouling Eraser) will benefit everyone but particularly competition guys, varminters, AR fanatics and big game hunters who spend a lot of time at the range."
Read more: [url]http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/10/11/hodgdon-cfe223-fights-copper-fouling/#ixzz2uddmk281[/url][/QUOTE]
The stuff really does work too.
Heard rumors Hodgdon is coming out with a CFE pistol powder as well in the near future promising the same copper fouling reduction as the rifle powder
Read more: [url]http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/10/11/hodgdon-cfe223-fights-copper-fouling/#ixzz2uddmk281[/url][/QUOTE]
The stuff really does work too.
Heard rumors Hodgdon is coming out with a CFE pistol powder as well in the near future promising the same copper fouling reduction as the rifle powder
447.) crookedeye - 03/02/2014
whats a varmiter?
448.) crookedeye - 03/02/2014
you guys crack me up...
449.) Hunter - 03/03/2014
Speaking of optics, how come red dot scopes can not be sent to PO Boxes while regular rifle scopes can??
450.) DParker - 03/03/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;17404]Speaking of optics, how come red dot scopes can not be sent to PO Boxes while regular rifle scopes can??[/QUOTE]
Do you have an example of that restriction you can link to? I've never heard that before.
Do you have an example of that restriction you can link to? I've never heard that before.
451.) Hunter - 03/03/2014
Vortex Strikefire is on sale at Cabelas on-line for $119 but they will not ship to PO box saying it is a restricted item.
Restricted Items\t
Vortex® StrikeFire Red/Green-Dot Scope\t Item cannot be shipped to PO Box.
Restricted Items\t
Vortex® StrikeFire Red/Green-Dot Scope\t Item cannot be shipped to PO Box.
452.) DParker - 03/03/2014
[QUOTE=Hunter;17406]Vortex Strikefire is on sale at Cabelas on-line for $119 but they will not ship to PO box saying it is a restricted item.
Restricted Items\t
Vortex® StrikeFire Red/Green-Dot Scope\t Item cannot be shipped to PO Box.[/QUOTE]
I see. So it's included in the same federal bureaucratic stupidity that covers scary tactical stuff like night vision. You know, if you can ship red dot optics to P.O. boxes then the terrorists win...or something like that.
Restricted Items\t
Vortex® StrikeFire Red/Green-Dot Scope\t Item cannot be shipped to PO Box.[/QUOTE]
I see. So it's included in the same federal bureaucratic stupidity that covers scary tactical stuff like night vision. You know, if you can ship red dot optics to P.O. boxes then the terrorists win...or something like that.
453.) Swamp Fox - 03/04/2014
Naturally, I can't find anything about this on the USPS website, but I did find something elsewhere that mentioned excluding [B]scopes[/B] and red-dot sights, etc. Not sure how authoritative that is, though.
I don't remember having problems getting scopes mailed to my PO box (last time was probably about three or four years ago) nor the one red dot I own (probably same time frame or maybe a little longer ago). I think I'd remember, because I usually throw a fit (at least with myself) when somebody won't mail to the POB.
It's possible I did throw a fit and then got over it, though. :wink
I have had companies insist on mailing to a physical address because they only use UPS or Fed Ex, or because they require a signature for delivery. Cabelas sometimes won't mail to a PO box because the item you're ordering ships straight from the manufacturer, and the mfr. has a no-PO-box policy.
I'd be interested if anyone can find the prohibition detailed straight from USPS.
If you have noticed, they now ask you if you're shipping perfume to any type of address. They never used to do that. I suppose that's an alcohol thing, but I wonder why they decided to up the profile.
I don't remember having problems getting scopes mailed to my PO box (last time was probably about three or four years ago) nor the one red dot I own (probably same time frame or maybe a little longer ago). I think I'd remember, because I usually throw a fit (at least with myself) when somebody won't mail to the POB.
It's possible I did throw a fit and then got over it, though. :wink
I have had companies insist on mailing to a physical address because they only use UPS or Fed Ex, or because they require a signature for delivery. Cabelas sometimes won't mail to a PO box because the item you're ordering ships straight from the manufacturer, and the mfr. has a no-PO-box policy.
I'd be interested if anyone can find the prohibition detailed straight from USPS.
If you have noticed, they now ask you if you're shipping perfume to any type of address. They never used to do that. I suppose that's an alcohol thing, but I wonder why they decided to up the profile.
454.) Hunter - 05/12/2014
Got my upper ordered. Going with Rock River upper w/ 18" stainless barrel. Maybe get it in 6 weeks.
In the meantime, without having to go through all the pages on this thread, what are some of the good (not best) red dots?? (less than $350).
Aimpoint Pro is about as high-end I think I want to go. I also like what I read about Vortex. They are about half the price but are 4MOA at 100yds
In the meantime, without having to go through all the pages on this thread, what are some of the good (not best) red dots?? (less than $350).
Aimpoint Pro is about as high-end I think I want to go. I also like what I read about Vortex. They are about half the price but are 4MOA at 100yds
455.) Ventilator - 05/12/2014
Vortex does have a good one. Sold all of the ones at the new Cabelas in SC the first weekend. Very quality product. Also , Browning makes one as well. I have two of them, one on AR the other on a Hi-point 9 milly.
456.) DParker - 05/12/2014
As always...what are your requirements for a "good" red dot? What are you wanting to use it for? Hunting out to 100 yds or so? Home defense? Killing beer cans at the range? Zombie apocalypse?
Aimpoints are great if you're dropping into a combat zone or prepping for something else where you really want that ability to leave the dot turned on for 5 years without a battery change...or just have money burning a hole in your pocket. But for the rest of us a less pricey but still quality made option like one of Vortex's offerings will do just fine. For even less (about $89 street prices) I'd recommend the Bushnell TRS-25 if it weren't for the fact that the brightness control dial is [I]extremely[/I] tight and difficult to turn, especially if you're wearing gloves. But I haven't seen any complaints about that in recent reviews (though there were several in older reviews) so maybe it was a temporary issue that Bushnell has since corrected.
I haven't seen one up close myself, but I hear that the Primary Arms red dots are a good value.
Aimpoints are great if you're dropping into a combat zone or prepping for something else where you really want that ability to leave the dot turned on for 5 years without a battery change...or just have money burning a hole in your pocket. But for the rest of us a less pricey but still quality made option like one of Vortex's offerings will do just fine. For even less (about $89 street prices) I'd recommend the Bushnell TRS-25 if it weren't for the fact that the brightness control dial is [I]extremely[/I] tight and difficult to turn, especially if you're wearing gloves. But I haven't seen any complaints about that in recent reviews (though there were several in older reviews) so maybe it was a temporary issue that Bushnell has since corrected.
I haven't seen one up close myself, but I hear that the Primary Arms red dots are a good value.
457.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
4 MOA would be too much for me for an all-around rifle. If the bones shook out close, I'd buy an Aimpoint. Screw the haters. :wink If I were trying to do everything at once, I'd mount a telescopic sight on top and a red dot (eye-position non-critical) on an offset.
458.) Hunter - 05/13/2014
4 MOA is too much for me also. I'm looking for something for a truck gun/ quick shots out to 100 or so yards. Would like to use both eyes for quick aquisition. I would settle for 2 MOA
459.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
Seems like at $350 you're not that far away from Aimpoint territory to begin with. I have $450 and 2 MOA in my head for the Aimpoint on my primary turkey shotgun. I could look it up tomorrow if you need.
The thing about an Aimpoint is that eye position is non-critical. That is not---emphasis NOT---the case with many other red dots. Unless the market has changed, many (most?) red dots still require you to center the dot in the field of view. At least that's the way it was the last time I checked.
The thing about an Aimpoint is that eye position is non-critical. That is not---emphasis NOT---the case with many other red dots. Unless the market has changed, many (most?) red dots still require you to center the dot in the field of view. At least that's the way it was the last time I checked.
460.) Hunter - 05/13/2014
Aimpoint Pro is less than $400 when you find it on sale which is where I'm leaning.
461.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
I'd go ahead and punch the trigger on that...You could say you had the Swampy seal of approval. Blame it on me if anything goes wrong...:wink
462.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
I'm still holding that Florida pig against you, by the way...:nk:
463.) OKY - 05/13/2014
Vortex SPARC is 2 MOA.
464.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
Vortex Sparc,,,
"Unlimited Eye Relief: Non-critical eye relief for rapid target [I]aquisition[/I]". [I]sic[/I] from the website :re:
Is this supposed to be an indication that the dot position is non-critical? Eye relief means distance--not position---to me...So this leaves me wondering if the dot still needs to be in the center of the field of view...
[url]http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-sparc-red-dot-scope[/url]
"Unlimited Eye Relief: Non-critical eye relief for rapid target [I]aquisition[/I]". [I]sic[/I] from the website :re:
Is this supposed to be an indication that the dot position is non-critical? Eye relief means distance--not position---to me...So this leaves me wondering if the dot still needs to be in the center of the field of view...
[url]http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-sparc-red-dot-scope[/url]
465.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
I wouldn't ask so many questions if they could spell...
:tap:
:tap:
466.) DParker - 05/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;1965]The thing about an Aimpoint is that eye position is non-critical. That is not---emphasis NOT---the case with many other red dots. Unless the market has changed, many (most?) red dots still require you to center the dot in the field of view. At least that's the way it was the last time I checked.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that's the case with all true red dots these days, and has been for quite some time. It's pretty much the whole point of one. That's why I question the reason for spending northwards of $400 for one for most people. What the Aimpoint buys you is a level of ruggedness and battery life that I'd certainly want if going into combat, but I can just as certainly live without on a hunting/casual fun rifle if it means over $200-$300 in price difference. But if that kind of money means nothing to you and cost is no object then by all means, go for it.
Actually, that's the case with all true red dots these days, and has been for quite some time. It's pretty much the whole point of one. That's why I question the reason for spending northwards of $400 for one for most people. What the Aimpoint buys you is a level of ruggedness and battery life that I'd certainly want if going into combat, but I can just as certainly live without on a hunting/casual fun rifle if it means over $200-$300 in price difference. But if that kind of money means nothing to you and cost is no object then by all means, go for it.
467.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
It does seem like you don't see the type of info that distinguishes non-critical red dots from models where you must center the dot in the tube these days. Even ten years ago, say, you did see that info highlighted in product descriptions. I'll bet my TruGlo doesn't let me place my eye or the dot just anywhere, though...LOL...Just a sneaking suspicion. :wink
This would be something I would check with the manufacturer before buying another red dot, but that's just me. I'm not willing to assume everyone's on the same playing field as far as this goes.
Here's some info from Wiki...Best I could do on short notice, LOL
[I]Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[3] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis).[4] Some manufacturers modify the focus of the LED/optical collimator combination, making models with the optical collimator set to focus the dot at a finite distance. These have a maximum amount of parallax due to eye movement, equal to the size of the optical window, at close range, diminishing to a minimal amount at the set distance (somewhere around a desired target range of 25-50 yards).[5]
Sights may also use a more sophisticated optical system that compensates for off axis spherical aberration, an error that can cause the dot position to diverge off the sight's optical axis with change in eye position. The optics used is a type of mangin mirror system, consisting of a meniscus lens corrector element combined with the semi-reflective mirror, sometimes referred to in advertising as a "two lens" or "double lens" system.[6][7][8] Although these are referred to as "parallax free"[9] sights, the system only keeps the aiming dot in alignment with the sight itself and does not compensate the inherent parallax errors induced by a collimated sight.
[/I]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_site[/url]
I have been impressed with some Vortex stuff, other stuff not so much. No experience with their red dots.
This would be something I would check with the manufacturer before buying another red dot, but that's just me. I'm not willing to assume everyone's on the same playing field as far as this goes.
Here's some info from Wiki...Best I could do on short notice, LOL
[I]Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[3] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis).[4] Some manufacturers modify the focus of the LED/optical collimator combination, making models with the optical collimator set to focus the dot at a finite distance. These have a maximum amount of parallax due to eye movement, equal to the size of the optical window, at close range, diminishing to a minimal amount at the set distance (somewhere around a desired target range of 25-50 yards).[5]
Sights may also use a more sophisticated optical system that compensates for off axis spherical aberration, an error that can cause the dot position to diverge off the sight's optical axis with change in eye position. The optics used is a type of mangin mirror system, consisting of a meniscus lens corrector element combined with the semi-reflective mirror, sometimes referred to in advertising as a "two lens" or "double lens" system.[6][7][8] Although these are referred to as "parallax free"[9] sights, the system only keeps the aiming dot in alignment with the sight itself and does not compensate the inherent parallax errors induced by a collimated sight.
[/I]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_site[/url]
I have been impressed with some Vortex stuff, other stuff not so much. No experience with their red dots.
468.) DParker - 05/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19665]It does seem like you don't see the type of info that distinguishes non-critical red dots from models where you must center the dot in the tube these days. Even ten years ago, say, you did see that info highlighted in product descriptions. I'll bet my TruGlo doesn't let me place my eye or the dot just anywhere, though...LOL...Just a sneaking suspicion. :wink
This would be something I would check with the manufacturer before buying another red dot, but that's just me. I'm not willing to assume everyone's on the same playing field as far as this goes.
Here's some info from Wiki...Best I could do on short notice, LOL
[I]Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[3] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis).[4] Some manufacturers modify the focus of the LED/optical collimator combination, making models with the optical collimator set to focus the dot at a finite distance. These have a maximum amount of parallax due to eye movement, equal to the size of the optical window, at close range, diminishing to a minimal amount at the set distance (somewhere around a desired target range of 25-50 yards).[5]
Sights may also use a more sophisticated optical system that compensates for off axis spherical aberration, an error that can cause the dot position to diverge off the sight's optical axis with change in eye position. The optics used is a type of mangin mirror system, consisting of a meniscus lens corrector element combined with the semi-reflective mirror, sometimes referred to in advertising as a "two lens" or "double lens" system.[6][7][8] Although these are referred to as "parallax free"[9] sights, the system only keeps the aiming dot in alignment with the sight itself and does not compensate the inherent parallax errors induced by a collimated sight.
[/I]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_site[/url]
I have been impressed with some Vortex stuff, other stuff not so much. No experience with their red dots.[/QUOTE]
But notice that the discussion of parallax from that wiki applies to ALL red dot sights, and that it begins the definition of that type of sight by saying they generate...
[quote]...a dot style illuminated reticle that stays in alignment with the weapon the sight is attached to regardless of eye position ([B]nearly[/B] parallax free).[/quote]
(Emphasis on "nearly" added by me.)
The remainder of the discussion is about how all red dots are really "only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance". That applies to all red dots, including Aimpoints, as it is the nature of the beast. Even Aimpoints exhibit visible parallax below a given range threshold (usually 25-50 yds or so IIRC). So the real question here is not complete elimination of parallax (not possible given the nature of the sight), but how much parallax is minimized at what distance(s), and whether or not you'll notice the difference. That's easy enough to test by stopping by your nearest brick-and-mortar vendor of such sights and taking a look through them. I'd wager you'll never detect a difference between an Aimpoint or something like a Vortex, especially at the distances you're actually going to be aiming at.
This would be something I would check with the manufacturer before buying another red dot, but that's just me. I'm not willing to assume everyone's on the same playing field as far as this goes.
Here's some info from Wiki...Best I could do on short notice, LOL
[I]Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[3] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis).[4] Some manufacturers modify the focus of the LED/optical collimator combination, making models with the optical collimator set to focus the dot at a finite distance. These have a maximum amount of parallax due to eye movement, equal to the size of the optical window, at close range, diminishing to a minimal amount at the set distance (somewhere around a desired target range of 25-50 yards).[5]
Sights may also use a more sophisticated optical system that compensates for off axis spherical aberration, an error that can cause the dot position to diverge off the sight's optical axis with change in eye position. The optics used is a type of mangin mirror system, consisting of a meniscus lens corrector element combined with the semi-reflective mirror, sometimes referred to in advertising as a "two lens" or "double lens" system.[6][7][8] Although these are referred to as "parallax free"[9] sights, the system only keeps the aiming dot in alignment with the sight itself and does not compensate the inherent parallax errors induced by a collimated sight.
[/I]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_site[/url]
I have been impressed with some Vortex stuff, other stuff not so much. No experience with their red dots.[/QUOTE]
But notice that the discussion of parallax from that wiki applies to ALL red dot sights, and that it begins the definition of that type of sight by saying they generate...
[quote]...a dot style illuminated reticle that stays in alignment with the weapon the sight is attached to regardless of eye position ([B]nearly[/B] parallax free).[/quote]
(Emphasis on "nearly" added by me.)
The remainder of the discussion is about how all red dots are really "only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance". That applies to all red dots, including Aimpoints, as it is the nature of the beast. Even Aimpoints exhibit visible parallax below a given range threshold (usually 25-50 yds or so IIRC). So the real question here is not complete elimination of parallax (not possible given the nature of the sight), but how much parallax is minimized at what distance(s), and whether or not you'll notice the difference. That's easy enough to test by stopping by your nearest brick-and-mortar vendor of such sights and taking a look through them. I'd wager you'll never detect a difference between an Aimpoint or something like a Vortex, especially at the distances you're actually going to be aiming at.
469.) Swamp Fox - 05/13/2014
Fair enough, though I read the Wiki a little differently...Maybe I'll do a little playing around and report back...
470.) DParker - 05/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19674]Fair enough, though I read the Wiki a little differently...Maybe I'll do a little playing around and report back...[/QUOTE]
The problem is that the laws of physics make a truly "parallax free" optic of any kind impossible except at infinity. If you have a magnified scope with a parallax adjustment (like my Nikon Buckmaster) it simply allows you to minimize the parallax at the range you set the dial to. There will still be [I]some[/I] parallax at that range, but not enough to make any difference. But you'll then have parallax that becomes noticeable the more your target distance deviates from the adjustment setting. Because of the optics arrangement, red dots don't suffer from the problem to anywhere near the extent that magnified scopes do...but they're still subject to it.
When Aimpoint (or any other manufacturer) says "parallax free" they're only using an industry shorthand for "relatively little parallax" or "a level of parallax that is unnoticeable by your human eye", and even then only beyond a certain distance where it falls below some target level. It's true that Aimpoint does a better job of minimizing parallax than most (perhaps even any) other manufacturer, but they're not magic, and are still subject to the laws of physics. Try training your dot on something within 10 fee and then move your head around and see if the parallax isn't quite noticeable. But train your dot on something at least 25-50 yds away and you'll never see the parallax (even though it's there to a tiny degree). There are some über-cheap red dots that don't compensate for parallax at all at realistic shooting distances, but they're suitable for nothing but airsoft guns or other toys.
This is why good, consistent cheek well is still important even with a top-notch red dot/holographic sight.
The problem is that the laws of physics make a truly "parallax free" optic of any kind impossible except at infinity. If you have a magnified scope with a parallax adjustment (like my Nikon Buckmaster) it simply allows you to minimize the parallax at the range you set the dial to. There will still be [I]some[/I] parallax at that range, but not enough to make any difference. But you'll then have parallax that becomes noticeable the more your target distance deviates from the adjustment setting. Because of the optics arrangement, red dots don't suffer from the problem to anywhere near the extent that magnified scopes do...but they're still subject to it.
When Aimpoint (or any other manufacturer) says "parallax free" they're only using an industry shorthand for "relatively little parallax" or "a level of parallax that is unnoticeable by your human eye", and even then only beyond a certain distance where it falls below some target level. It's true that Aimpoint does a better job of minimizing parallax than most (perhaps even any) other manufacturer, but they're not magic, and are still subject to the laws of physics. Try training your dot on something within 10 fee and then move your head around and see if the parallax isn't quite noticeable. But train your dot on something at least 25-50 yds away and you'll never see the parallax (even though it's there to a tiny degree). There are some über-cheap red dots that don't compensate for parallax at all at realistic shooting distances, but they're suitable for nothing but airsoft guns or other toys.
This is why good, consistent cheek well is still important even with a top-notch red dot/holographic sight.
471.) DParker - 05/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19665]I'll bet my TruGlo doesn't let me place my eye or the dot just anywhere, though...LOL...Just a sneaking suspicion. :wink[/QUOTE]
That depends. Which TruGlo do you have? The Tru-Brite (which I might give to my son on his next birthday to replace the difficult-to-adjust Bushnell he has now) is designed to be "parallax free" beyond 30 yds (for a MSRP of $99, or ~$75 in reality):
[url]http://www.truglo.com/optics-red-dots/tru-brite-dual-color-single-reticle-open-red-dot-sight.asp?catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6[/url]
Ditto their open RDs (like [url]http://www.truglo.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=1AE463190365481CABA833BFF1613546&catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6[/url]) and the Triton 28mm ([url]http://www.truglo.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=F2B089F79ECA4E94B0AC4A973B341046&catid=[/url]).
Their other RD descriptions don't say anything about parallax though, so maybe they don't correct at all. On the other hand, I've found descriptions of some of their other RDSs on other vendor sights that do include the "parallax free at 30 yds" claim, so who knows.
That depends. Which TruGlo do you have? The Tru-Brite (which I might give to my son on his next birthday to replace the difficult-to-adjust Bushnell he has now) is designed to be "parallax free" beyond 30 yds (for a MSRP of $99, or ~$75 in reality):
[url]http://www.truglo.com/optics-red-dots/tru-brite-dual-color-single-reticle-open-red-dot-sight.asp?catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6[/url]
Ditto their open RDs (like [url]http://www.truglo.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=1AE463190365481CABA833BFF1613546&catid=52E3D7409570433EBF69FA2CBEB51CA6[/url]) and the Triton 28mm ([url]http://www.truglo.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=F2B089F79ECA4E94B0AC4A973B341046&catid=[/url]).
Their other RD descriptions don't say anything about parallax though, so maybe they don't correct at all. On the other hand, I've found descriptions of some of their other RDSs on other vendor sights that do include the "parallax free at 30 yds" claim, so who knows.
472.) Swamp Fox - 05/14/2014
My Truglo is the one that came on my Remington Predator shotgun, listed these days by Remington as Truglo model number TG8030DB, which I'd guess is the one TG lists as its "Traditional."
Nothing against TruGlo (they have always been good to me when I tear up their fiber optics) but I don't expect them to be all whizz-bang compared to some others. I believe that if I hung upside down, corkscrewed my neck cattywampus and made my eyeballs go east and west respectively, my Aimpoint would shoot where I wanted. Not so the Truglo, methinks.
I do know one thing: Whoever sourced the lens covers for that TruGlo should be fired yesterday. The first thing you do with that sight after you take it out of the box is watch the lens covers fall off.
Nothing against TruGlo (they have always been good to me when I tear up their fiber optics) but I don't expect them to be all whizz-bang compared to some others. I believe that if I hung upside down, corkscrewed my neck cattywampus and made my eyeballs go east and west respectively, my Aimpoint would shoot where I wanted. Not so the Truglo, methinks.
I do know one thing: Whoever sourced the lens covers for that TruGlo should be fired yesterday. The first thing you do with that sight after you take it out of the box is watch the lens covers fall off.
473.) Hunter - 05/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19653]I'm still holding that Florida pig against you, by the way...:nk:[/QUOTE]
Let it go, let it go! :wave:
Let it go, let it go! :wave:
474.) DParker - 05/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19681]My Truglo is the one that came on my Remington Predator shotgun, listed these days by Remington as Truglo model number TG8030DB[/QUOTE]
That's their low-end 5 MOA model, which is what you'd expect Remington to package with a shotgun. Truglo's site says nothing about parallax compensation, but several retailers claim that it's adjusted for parallax past 25 yds. But that's easy enough for you to verify/debunk.
Bottom line, the parallax issue can be more than dealt with for far less than $450. Around $100 will do that. Spending more than that buys you other things beyond that (like better lens covers :wink ), and some of those things may well be worth the additional coin to you. But you needn't shell out an extra $350-$550 just to get a dot that stays on target when you move your head.
That's their low-end 5 MOA model, which is what you'd expect Remington to package with a shotgun. Truglo's site says nothing about parallax compensation, but several retailers claim that it's adjusted for parallax past 25 yds. But that's easy enough for you to verify/debunk.
Bottom line, the parallax issue can be more than dealt with for far less than $450. Around $100 will do that. Spending more than that buys you other things beyond that (like better lens covers :wink ), and some of those things may well be worth the additional coin to you. But you needn't shell out an extra $350-$550 just to get a dot that stays on target when you move your head.
475.) Ventilator - 05/14/2014
The lens covers on the browning are super tight. PITA to get off actually. Needs to be a happy medium somewhere.
476.) DParker - 05/14/2014
[QUOTE=Ventilator;19693]Needs to be a happy medium somewhere.[/QUOTE]
477.) bluecat - 05/14/2014
:grin:
478.) Ventilator - 05/14/2014
Id say she is happy. ;)
479.) Deerminator - 05/14/2014
.....
480.) Jon - 08/07/2015
Just bringing this back to the top of discussion to see how your new AR build is doing Swampy. How many rounds does it have through it now and how do you like it. Let us know what you ended up building, surprised you didn't show us pictures. :wink
481.) Swamp Fox - 08/07/2015
I keep all the pictures in my head. Unfortunately I have zero rounds downrange since Rock River put me off and my interest in the whole idea took a nosedive. It's about a 3 on the scale of 1-10 right now.
482.) Deerminator - 08/07/2015
Get it while you can Mink.
Were not allowed to have them here in NY.:groan:
Were not allowed to have them here in NY.:groan:
483.) Jon - 08/10/2015
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33698]I keep all the pictures in my head. Unfortunately I have zero rounds downrange since Rock River put me off and my interest in the whole idea took a nosedive. It's about a 3 on the scale of 1-10 right now.[/QUOTE]
My old hunting club's president was an investor who made a really good life for himself and then took a buy out and went straight down. While he was our president, we had tractors, trailers, boats, decoys, houses and pretty much anything we wanted. The thing about him was to keep him fired up about whatever it was we wanted to buy because he'd just buy it. Once the interest wasn't on top of his list, it would never get done. we quickly learned how to get him to do things.
His problem was he wouldn't pay attention to the important stuff, like paying bills. This is why we disbanded the club and formed a new club.
Anyway, it seems like you juggle at least a million ideas in your head at one time, the one that gets the most attention sometimes gets done and the rest fall off the list.
I sorta figured you didn't have that AR sitting in your closet.
My old hunting club's president was an investor who made a really good life for himself and then took a buy out and went straight down. While he was our president, we had tractors, trailers, boats, decoys, houses and pretty much anything we wanted. The thing about him was to keep him fired up about whatever it was we wanted to buy because he'd just buy it. Once the interest wasn't on top of his list, it would never get done. we quickly learned how to get him to do things.
His problem was he wouldn't pay attention to the important stuff, like paying bills. This is why we disbanded the club and formed a new club.
Anyway, it seems like you juggle at least a million ideas in your head at one time, the one that gets the most attention sometimes gets done and the rest fall off the list.
I sorta figured you didn't have that AR sitting in your closet.
484.) Swamp Fox - 08/10/2015
LOL...
I can relate. I am an idea/concept guy. Also, spend too much time in my own head sometimes. Also mostly a delegator and not hands-on. Oh, and psychological tests say I am "Goal Diffuse." :tap:
It all adds up to trouble, LOL.
But the main things that got in the way were that I had a very narrow specific need/idea for the AR, a time window, and I couldn't get exactly what I wanted immediately...Stuff like that takes air out of my balloon fast...
Not to mention I've been slammed with tons of other expenses and time/energy vampires since the thread got going.
Was pointed to a 6 lb. AR the other day, but it will be a while before I can get around to looking into it further.
I can relate. I am an idea/concept guy. Also, spend too much time in my own head sometimes. Also mostly a delegator and not hands-on. Oh, and psychological tests say I am "Goal Diffuse." :tap:
It all adds up to trouble, LOL.
But the main things that got in the way were that I had a very narrow specific need/idea for the AR, a time window, and I couldn't get exactly what I wanted immediately...Stuff like that takes air out of my balloon fast...
Not to mention I've been slammed with tons of other expenses and time/energy vampires since the thread got going.
Was pointed to a 6 lb. AR the other day, but it will be a while before I can get around to looking into it further.
485.) Deerminator - 08/10/2015
Saw a prepper show where 2 guys were in a box blind with custom AR's.
They went shoot on the count of 3.
At 3 they fired. The short barreled AR was not pass the window and was INSIDE the box blind. The sound was so loud they passed out, threw up, and bled from their ears.
And to top it off the guy got kicked out of the prepper compound and lost his BFF.
They went shoot on the count of 3.
At 3 they fired. The short barreled AR was not pass the window and was INSIDE the box blind. The sound was so loud they passed out, threw up, and bled from their ears.
And to top it off the guy got kicked out of the prepper compound and lost his BFF.
486.) bluecat - 08/10/2015
You wouldn't want to turn a deaf ear to potential problems like that.
487.) Hunter - 08/10/2015
[QUOTE=bluecat;33751]You wouldn't want to turn a deaf ear to potential problems like that.[/QUOTE]
A deaf ear may have helped :-)
A deaf ear may have helped :-)
488.) Hunter - 08/10/2015
Swampy, maybe just get a lower to start. Find one at a gun show or somewhere where it won't be registered. Then you can sit back and decide what you want to build.
489.) Swamp Fox - 08/10/2015
[QUOTE=Hunter;33754]Swampy, maybe just get a lower to start. Find one at a gun show or somewhere where it won't be registered. Then you can sit back and decide what you want to build.[/QUOTE]
Well, I always do better when I "Just start somewhere, dammit!" LOL
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33743]
I am an idea/concept guy. Also, spend too much time in my own head sometimes. Also mostly a delegator and not hands-on. Oh, and psychological tests say I am "Goal Diffuse." :tap:
It all adds up to trouble, LOL.
...
[/QUOTE]
Idea Man:
One of my favorite scenes is where he reminds himself on his tape recorder to "Call Starkist." :wink:grin::laugh:
Well, I always do better when I "Just start somewhere, dammit!" LOL
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;33743]
I am an idea/concept guy. Also, spend too much time in my own head sometimes. Also mostly a delegator and not hands-on. Oh, and psychological tests say I am "Goal Diffuse." :tap:
It all adds up to trouble, LOL.
...
[/QUOTE]
Idea Man:
One of my favorite scenes is where he reminds himself on his tape recorder to "Call Starkist." :wink:grin::laugh:
490.) bluecat - 08/11/2015
"Nice Frame" LOL!