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1.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[url]http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/virginia-politics/general-assembly/sunday-hunting-ok-d/article_64e2a302-92d2-11e3-909e-0017a43b2370.html[/url]


Private land only :td: but apparently open to firearms (Are you listening, NC?). Not sure what happened to the horse rider and dog-hunting arch-opponents this go round, but yay anyway. Next stop: freeing the public [B]hunting[/B] lands from this stupid, arbitrary and unnecessary ban.
2.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
I always thought that was the craziest law. I never could understand why NC is such a hold out on such an archaic and antiquated belief...I guess I could understand it better if other states in the Bible Belt were following suite, but come on...most everyone else pitched this out with Jim Crow for God sakes!
3.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
The bill that looks like it will pass this time is very similar to the one that died on the one-yard line in 2012. What's changed, inquiring minds might want to know:


Quote:

[I]...the atmosphere should not be the same as it was two years ago.

Department of Game and Inland Fisheries board members continue to become more vocally supportive of lifting the Sunday hunting ban, which the agency’s staff says will not adversely affect game populations. In fact, the biologists are saying, it could provide more flexibility in managing game populations.

Presumably, DGIF officials and other Sunday hunting advocates are also ensuring that the state’s delegates and senators are being made keenly aware of the demographics of Virginia’s hunting population.

Hunters are aging, and the state is on the cusp of experiencing massive hunter attrition as baby boomers age out of the activity. While there’s no assurance that Sunday hunting will greatly increase new hunter recruitment, it can’t hurt.

[B]Another big difference between 2012 and this year is a looming lawsuit over the ban.

This past October, Safari Club International announced that it had filed a suit challenging the ban on the grounds of it violates both the U.S. Constitution and the Constitution of Virginia.

The powerful organization said it would delay serving the suit to the Commonwealth of Virginia, the state attorney general and the DGIF until after the General Assembly.

So a vote against SB 154 could result in resource-consuming litigation for the state and the DGIF, adding gravity to the decision for delegates who profess to support hunting in general.
[/B][/I]


Unquote.

[Emphasis mine.]

Source: [url]http://www.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/article_6d040452-7b0f-11e3-9e7b-001a4bcf6878.html[/url]


+++++



The bill does ban deer-dogging on Sundays and creates a buffer of 200 yards around houses of worship. As I believe it did in 2012. Haven't dug deep enough to know if firing your bow within 200 yards of a church would upset a lot of people, but I wouldn't put it past some of them to get their panties in a wad about it.

And, as a occasional deer dogger, I'd like to spank the representatives of my organizations for acting like sheep, in fear of reprisal and negative public opinion for standing up for my ability to legally hunt deer my way any day I want to, just like any other citizen. The most vocal deer-dog groups have largely opposed Sunday hunting in the past, even when deer-dogging has been excluded from proposals. (They continue to be an obstacle in NC. I will refrain from making personal comments about their lobbyists.)
4.) NEBigAl - 02/13/2014
IMO. Restrictions of all types based around Sundays and sabbath days belong right in there with it being illegal to eat ice cream on the street in Chicago. Left over from a different age, and now hijacked by a minority group.
5.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Amen! Same with the rest of the belief systems out there and all the other antiquated stuff like the constitution, bill of rights, you name it. And screw that common courtesy crap too - how antiquated is that? The belief in non-belief is where its at. Make your own rules and feel free to change them anytime you want. How great is that?
6.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[url]http://www.dumblaws.com/[/url]


Look up your own state.


Here are a few under NC:



It is a felony to steal more than $1000 of grease

The mere possession of a lottery ticket is illegal in North Carolina and may result in a $2,000 fine. Repealed

No one may be a professional fortune-teller, and if one wishes to pursue the practice as an amateur, it must be practiced in a school or church. Repealed by Session Laws 2004-003



It’s against the law to sing off key.

Elephants may not be used to plow cotton fields.

While having sex, you must stay in the missionary position and have the shades pulled.

If a man and a woman who aren’t married go to a hotel/motel and register themselves as married then, according to state law, they are legally married.

All couples staying overnight in a hotel must have a room with double beds that are at least two feet apart.

It is illegal to have sex in a churchyard.


A marriage can be declared void if either of the two persons is physically impotent.


Bingo games may not last over 5 hours unless it is held at a fair.



Serving alcohol at a bingo game is not allowed.



Persons in possession of illegal substances must pay taxes on them.



A three dollar tax must be paid on all white goods sold.



Organizations may not hold their meetings while the members present are in costume.


City Laws in North Carolina

Barber

Fights between cats and dogs are prohibited.

Chapel Hill

It is a misdemeanor to urinate or defecate publicly.

Charlotte

Women must have their bodies covered by at least 16 yards of cloth at all times.



Most of these laws are documented on the website. Some are not, and might be considered suspect...But that's the website's problem, not mine. :wink
7.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
We need a Swamp Fox law.

Oops, no we don't.
8.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Fer or agin?


:pop:


(I might regret putting this in Podunk, LOL.)
9.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Where to draw the line. I never want that line drawn where it inconveniences me.

No? Why should I care about anyone else? That was a Rhetorical question, because the answer is more than likey based on some antiquated what ever.

No more lines!!
10.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16597]Amen! Same with the rest of the belief systems out there and all the other antiquated stuff like the constitution, bill of rights, you name it. And screw that common courtesy crap too - how antiquated is that? The belief in non-belief is where its at. Make your own rules and feel free to change them anytime you want. How great is that?[/QUOTE]

Is it a bad day Floyd? :wave:


There's definitely too much of this today:

We got too complicated
It's all way over-rated

- I'm just saying that I appreciate being able to hunt on Sundays. (I go hunting most Sunday afternoons during the season.) It would really cut into my total season hunt time if I weren't able to go then.
11.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16600]
(I might regret putting this in Podunk, LOL.)[/QUOTE]

Sunday hunting? Why draw any line? 24/7/365. 24/7/366 on a leap year.

Dare we put "if"s in there?
12.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
I'm having a great day Bob. Wave back. I'm at the stock show and rodeo with 30 foreign exchange students. And the weather is great. I'm in a t-shirt.

I'm living the dream.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

But, contemplating is hard work.
13.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
Great! I'm glad to hear that all is well amigo.

I was doing really good myself...but now it's snowing here again (oh, wait...that's normal)

If most of the inhabitants of the northern plain and mountain states had the same attitude regarding winter weather that NYC has...we'd all be running around crazed, chomping on Prozac like they were tic-tacs and guzzling Miller Lights to wash them down! LOL

(No offense NYC) :re:
14.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16603]Sunday hunting? [COLOR="#FF0000"]Yes. Like Sunday fishing.[/COLOR] Why draw any line? [COLOR="#FF0000"]Because this is not an all-or-nothing proposition.[/COLOR] 24/7/365. 24/7/366 on a leap year. [COLOR="#FF0000"]Probably could work in some places. And might in the future.

[/COLOR]Dare we put "if"s in there? [COLOR="#FF0000"]Sure, why not.[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]....
15.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16605] I'm in a t-shirt.

[/QUOTE]


And pants....Please say you're wearing pants...

:-)
16.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Draw the line king swampy.
17.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
I'm just tellin' ya...he didn't mention anything about pants...
18.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16609]And pants....Please say you're wearing pants...

:-)[/QUOTE]

Why you care? You want to oppress me with a pant rule?
19.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16610]Draw the line king swampy.[/QUOTE]

Let me consult my staff of biologists and field agents...
20.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16612]Why you care? You want to oppress me with a pant rule?[/QUOTE]

I didn't say anything about a rule...Let common sense be your guide in all things...Including your choice of wardrobe...:wink
21.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16614]I didn't say anything about a rule...Let common sense be your guide in all things...Including your choice of wardrobe...:wink[/QUOTE]

You first. Who said anything about not wearing paints or just a t-shirt or whatever your peanut was thinking (figure of Speach).
22.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16614]I didn't say anything about a rule...Let common sense be your guide in all things...Including your choice of wardrobe...:wink[/QUOTE]

Does this apply to whether or not we should let the Federal Goverment put safety's on stake knives and issue user permits???
23.) Deerminator - 02/13/2014
THERE"S A PICTURE YA DON'T WANT TO GET IN YOUR HEAD:duh: ( [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=1]BEEN DIE'N TO USE THAT EMOTIONCON[/SIZE][/FONT] )
24.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
I think a pants rule might make sense for certain segments of the population, including some individuals I could name specifically, but unless not wearing pants hinders the national defense or harms the property, physical well-being or livelihood of the citizens, I think it's better that we keep the government out of people's pants.

:wink
25.) Deerminator - 02/13/2014
Sunday hunting has been alowed here as long as I can remember.
26.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16619]I think a pants rule might make sense for certain segments of the population, including some individuals I could name specifically, but unless not wearing pants hinders the national defense or harms the property, physical well-being or livelihood of the citizens, I think it's better that we keep the government out of people's pants.

:wink[/QUOTE]

But yet you started this thread. And a pants gap race.
27.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Hunting on Sunday and wearing pants are not mutually exclusive, despite what you Texans might think...
28.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Hey dog robber, your mandate from the man didn't include personal attacks.
29.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
The Virginia legislators are missing a revenue generating opportunity. The should allow Sunday hunting for an additional fee and permit. What were they thinking?
30.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Oh, I see...This is MY week in the barrel, LOL... When's shift change? Saturday midnight?

:grin:
31.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16627]Hey dog robber, your mandate from the man didn't include personal attacks.[/QUOTE]


Oh, I see...This is MY week in the barrel, LOL... When's shift change? Saturday midnight?
32.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16629]The Virginia legislators are missing a revenue generating opportunity. The should allow Sunday hunting for an additional fee and permit. What were they thinking?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put it past them, LOL. They like to nickel and dime you on licenses.
33.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Pay to play brother, pay to play.

In northern Virginia you could open deer hunting for free 24/7/365 and it would be a very long time before you dented the deer population up there.
34.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Very true. Lots of gardens there to keep them fat, and homeowner's associations to keep them healthy.
35.) bluecat - 02/13/2014
Good one Swamp.
36.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
Couldn't have done it without Floyd. :tu:

We're a hell of a team. :-)
37.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
I'm not finished. Hold tight, I'm going to make Swampy a beter Emperor. More to come.
38.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
To reward you for your service and your loyalty, you shall command all my armies...and be the bouncer for the rope line. I promised Court Jester to Crookedeye, but that's just a nepotism thing...I mean despotism...
39.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Oh, big mistake Swampy. I'm a red blooded Amercan and don't believe in royalty and their titles. And I don't believe in our de facto royalty in our elected officials. But, I'm still willing to help you out.

So, emperor swampy, besides people of faith, their beliefs, traditions etc, etc, etc...
who or whom else can be ignored or not considered to allow for what you want when you want? Unions? Preppers? Tweeters? Home owners associations?
40.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
I'm with Jon. One day a week for hunting sucks.
41.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16640]Oh, big mistake Swampy. I'm a red blooded Amercan and don't believe in royalty and their titles. And I don't believe in our de facto royalty in our elected officials. But, I'm still willing to help you out.

So, emperor swampy, besides people of faith, their beliefs, traditions etc, etc, etc...
who or whom else can be ignored or not considered to allow for what you want when you want? Unions? Preppers? Tweeters? Home owners associations?[/QUOTE]



Hmmm...A little difficult for you to nominate me for Emperor if you don't believe in royalty and titles...I shall have to reconsider what to do with you...Exalted Citizen of Smoked Meats, maybe...

We (and I may be using the royal "we" here---You decide.) are willing to ignore anyone who's willing to ignore us.

But ignoring people was never really the issue, now, was it?
42.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
You sure? Is discount a better word? Or what ever word we want to use in relation to the opposition. Redefining words is fun too and fair game.
43.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Anyways, how about a 4 day work week to get 2 days of hunting and yet leave the original and basic reason for a Sunday; what ever they are.
44.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Look for win wins for all your peoples Swampy
45.) Swamp Fox - 02/13/2014
I don't feel supporting Sunday hunting is ignoring or discounting "the opposition." There will always be places you cannot hunt seven days a week (at the end of the cul-de-sac, in the church parking lot, behind the school, etc.).

There should [I]not[/I] be very many places you are forbidden from hunting one day a week, and yet "the opposition" is willing to ignore or discount the facts, common sense and much, much more to keep those scruffy hunters out of the woods on Sundays across vast swaths of entire states.
46.) Floyd - 02/13/2014
Or, at least the perception of it.

Then you can do this, after the four day work week thing, you can wipe out the Sunday thing and we all get three days off for Hunting!! Genius

All hail Swampy!

Don't call me. I've gone fishing.
47.) Wild Bob - 02/13/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16651]Or, at least the perception of it.

Then you can do this, after the four day work week thing, you can wipe out the Sunday thing and we all get three days off for Hunting!! Genius

All hail Swampy!

Don't call me. I've gone fishing.[/QUOTE]

Gone fishing with or without your pants on?
48.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16650]I don't feel supporting Sunday hunting is ignoring or discounting "the opposition." There will always be places you cannot hunt seven days a week (at the end of the cul-de-sac, in the church parking lot, behind the school, etc.). [/QUOTE] Places? :cf: I've never talked about picking and choosing hunting and no hunting areas once the decision of hunting on Sunday is made. I, for one, am in favor of opening up current restrictions. Fugging people should be able to decide, without government, what the right thing is to do. When giving a choice, I would like to freely make that choice. If Jon wants to hunt on Sunday let him hunt on Sunday. If Brother John doesn't want to hunt on Sunday, then he can pull up his big boy pants and make that happen. If he's too weak or can't make that happen, then he can ask for Brother Peters help. And leave Jon alone. And they should be able to do this with out busting each other's chops about it.

The problem is, how do you get there from here? (I know, I know, like the article says, stick your foot in the door and get it done on private property...) Given, the basic principles of how, why and when this country was founded and given the difficulties of change. Not to mention the historic significant of Sunday. Crap, let's not get into Saturdays for heaven sakes... Oi Vay. :groan:

I know, I know, like the article says, stick your foot in the door and get it done on private property first....then.... then a little more...and more....and erode away until victory. Sort of like what we are seeing at the national level with our constitution and what not.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16650]There should [I]not[/I] be very many places you are forbidden from hunting one day a week, and yet "the opposition" is willing to ignore or discount the facts, common sense and much, much more to keep those scruffy hunters out of the woods on Sundays across vast swaths of entire states.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Correct. The politics of it all needs to stop.
49.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16652]Gone fishing with or without your pants on?[/QUOTE]

Now why would you want to know that? I'm flattered and all, but, I am married to a lovely lady and monogamous by choice.

Now you just run along, you, Wild Bob, you. :wink
50.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16653]Places? :cf: I've never talked about picking and choosing hunting and no hunting areas once the decision of hunting on Sunday is made. I, for one, am in favor of opening up current restrictions. [/QUOTE]

I only used that example because you made a specific remark about homeowners' associations and implied conflicts with churches. I could have made other points. Believe me, that was only one arrow in my revolver, well-oiled after many years of fighting on this issue. I will try to hit home a little better next time.

In my opinion, if you favor Sunday hunting, you just have to call BS on all the arguments against it at each and every opportunity...And that includes the bogus "safety" argument, to say nothing about all the truly ridiculous ones.

Until we quit letting ourselves be pushed around as special second-class citizens, there always will be an excuse to put us in a box.

Now, eroding the Constitution and expanding freedom are two completely different animals, though I agree they are almost always slow and plodding.
51.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Forget emperor

....You're a GOD!

SMITE THEM WITH THO'S VENGEANCE
52.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Now, now...Cool your jets...It's still my week in the barrel until Saturday...
53.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
GOD Swampy, you're delusional if you don't think your not in your perpetual barrel. You know, alpha and omega, without beginning or end.
54.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
LOL...

This is why we need Hoyt'em back...

I'm not sure how much longer I can take it...:wink
55.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
C'mon GOD Swampy, come to Texas and hunt on Sunday.

:grin:

:poke:

:fire:
56.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Don't curse the darkness, light a candle.

Vote with you feet, move to a state that allows hunting on Sunday. Or Worship Sunday or Saturday or....

Your choice.

:dig:
57.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Well, I believe I could pass the republic's chili test, but I've got a lot of irons in the fire up here.

Although if you know any cowpokes who are also dependable cat wranglers, the odds go up.

I'd pay their trail expenses, round trip. And I'll throw in two bits and some sarsaparilla.
58.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Austin. Definitely Austin. Send and open letter to the cowpokes in Austin.
59.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Naw, just stay there and be a maverick. Fight the good fight. Change them laws. Take no prisoner's. Be the waves that change the coast line.
60.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16665]Austin. Definitely Austin. Send and open letter to the cowpokes in Austin.[/QUOTE]

LOL...

No telling what that would turn up.

61.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
I assume this discussion is over, but I've always been on the fence about Sunday hunting here in PA. I do worship on Sunday mornings and would even if deer season was open. My choice, my beliefs.

There are 2 big obstacles to Sunday hunting in PA. Private farmers and their Associations and the general public that wants to hike, bike, on one day of the weekend without feeling like they're in a war zone.

The PA Game Comm. wants farmland open to public hunting and they risk receiving the wrath of many, many farmers who are not in favor of Jon trudging around their farm on Sunday mornings, while they believe it should be a day different than the rest of the week. Also they walk the tightrope of appeasing the masses who use public land here. I think they only wish to keep the status quo of tradition.

Like I said, always on the fence on this in my mind. But I will argue with anyone on here, that the faith beliefs of many over the ages are extinct, and we know so much better today that we can forget this silly faith idea.

I can take one look at this culture and see how well we've been doing with the modern ideas.
62.) crookedeye - 02/14/2014
ok everybody just calm down!!
63.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Luv2, this is only about GOD Swampy's wants and needs from his prescriptive. He was just ranting. Ignore me, I'm just a kid with a stick and a hornets nest. And CE is the court jester (at least I got something of the conversation).
64.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
If they ever find a grave with the body of Jesus Christ in it, and can prove it, I'll throw away my bible, leave my wife, get drunk all day everyday, and hunt every Sunday.

Until then I'm going to stay the course.
65.) bluecat - 02/14/2014
In other words, get drunk all day everyday.
66.) Jon - 02/14/2014
I started trying to push the Sunday hunting here in Delaware about 10 years ago and it fell on deaf, very defensive ears. I only later found out that the battle is deep.
The Dupont family who practically owns Delaware has been "fox hunting" since the 1800's. They used to do it on Sunday and don't want the competition. The argument has been pushed back for a few years (120 or so).
Before my time here on the Sunday hunting podium, another guy stood up and preached his idea to the state powers that be and it was mentioned that a state in the western US once had a very long season like we do and they were looking to thin their herd, the state decided that instead of a 50 day season, they would reduce it to 14 days. The people screamed and cried! The fact that a long season allows hunters to pick and choose when they hunt and actually discourages guys from shooting deer unless the situation is perfect is very true and proven by this situation. Once they reduced the season to 14 days, the harvest doubled because everyone was out during those 14 days rain or shine and they all killed more deer in that 2 week period than they did in the longer season.
After I heard that, I stopped talking about Sunday hunting! I really enjoy hunting from Sept-Jan and wouldn't trade it for a 2 week season with Sundays.
67.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Moral of the story, quit your beotching?
68.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16677]Luv2, this is only about GOD Swampy's wants and needs from his prescriptive. He was just ranting... [/QUOTE]


They're dedicating a statue to Floyd in the town square today:




I appreciate the humor and the attempt to dig deeper into the issue, but have to say I am a little uncomfortable with the capital-G god stuff lobbed in my direction. But we still have a First Amendment, almost, so carry on.

More importantly, this is not about my wants and needs. It is about a lot more than that. And I hope I wasn't ranting. I can kick it up a few notches, though, if you are really interested rather than just "up for it." The chaos ensues if you are not satisfied with me merely nibbling around the edges and stealing your bait every once in a while. :wink

I was also kinda hoping we were done with the church thing, but maybe not (not because of Luv2's post but because Floyd brings up "Swampy's wants and needs" again in the GOD context). I suppose that's okay. Fridays are always slow around here.

So let me bring this back up:

[QUOTE=Floyd;16647]Anyways, how about a 4 day work week to get 2 days of hunting and yet leave the original and basic reason for a Sunday; what ever they are.[/QUOTE]

What are you, French? :wink

People have to work five, six, seven days a week in the USA. If there were an 8th day, it might help balance out the Obamanomics, at least partially.

If someone wants to observe the Sabbath, more power to him. Is there a reason we're elevating Sunday, though? How about Saturday? (Apologies, Floyd. That was in my head before you mentioned please don't mention it, and I think we have to get it out there.) More to the point, how about Joe can go to Mass every day, Jedediah can forego electricity, Saul can walk to temple, Mike can go to church in the morning and hunt in the afternoon, Jim can decide he wants to hunt all day, and Rodney can sleep in and go fishing after breakfast. And Bill can do a combination of all of the above.

Then everyone's happy...

Well, except for the people who think that hunting should be targeted for special exclusion one day a week, commonly because they think other people should be doing something like what they are doing, instead of the legal and harmless thing that they want to do. Call it the busy-body factor, if you want to. Luv2 makes this general point in his post, echoing almost exactly how I see the problem on that particular point, which is why I kinda like him despite my better judgment.
69.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16682]If someone wants to observe the Sabbath, more power to him. Is there a reason we're elevating Sunday, though? How about Saturday?[/QUOTE]

Yep. Otherwise the Seventh Day Adventists, Seventh Day Baptists, the Jews, et al will fart in your general heathen direction.
70.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16680]....Once they reduced the season to 14 days, the harvest doubled because everyone was out during those 14 days rain or shine and they all killed more deer in that 2 week period than they did in the longer season.
After I heard that, I stopped talking about Sunday hunting! I really enjoy hunting from Sept-Jan and wouldn't trade it for a 2 week season with Sundays.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point! The game commissions set harvest goals, then season lengths to achieve them (not license limits as is sometimes thought). At least here in the East.

But I don't know any state, certainly not in the South, that 1) would make such a drastic reduction in season length if they were to add Sundays and 2) would not welcome the opportunity to take more deer and recruit more hunters if Sunday hunting would achieve those goals.


I realize that states like Delaware and those in the Northeast that have blue laws against hunting are not in the same boat as down here. Perhaps season reductions really would be on the table. I don't know.
71.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
Again, I made no stance on Sunday hunting, based on some faith issue. If I come to a conclusion about Sunday hunting as a matter of personal faith, that is for me to follow and no one else. I wouldn't expect an atheist to follow a faith or belief they think is hocus pocus.

I believe the State has no right to impose any religion on the citizens. We have freedom of religion here, even freedom to be wrong. My post was a reminder agencies are considering much more than just what a hunter would like to see.

SF you can rest assured I will not refer to you as a god with a little or big g.
72.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;16686]SF you can rest assured I will not refer to you as a god with a little or big g.[/QUOTE]

Good. The club always needs new members...

:wink
73.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
The argument is the argument.

Q-tip. = quit taking it personal. (Whether weíre talking Sunday hunting, bag limits, size restrictions etc.)

I prefer to deal with matters such as this by choosing where I live. That takes care of the issue. (I left the state I grew up in the northeast many years ago, never looked back. Now I dread having to go visit my family that still lives there because all they do is Fitch about how much the area has changed, complain about all the people and all the new rules, blah, blah, blah...) ĎSo get over it and go live some where the majority of the people embrace the life style and beliefs that are similar to your own' is what I've told family members...but they'd rather cry than take ownership of their own destiny.

And really, thatís just fine with me, because most people choose to live where they do for many reasons beyond hunting and the outdoors. So that leaves some absolutely wonderfully natural places on the fringes that donít cater to shopping malls and urban development for people that are more interested in quality outdoor experiences than grabbing a coffee at the nearest Starbucks. Is it a sacrifice? You bet, but worth it. Again, itís all about choice in my mind.

But, now if this Sunday thing was a NATIONAL issue...then I could see everyone beating each other up over it.

Letís just be appreciative that there is some latitude in the issues and that we donít live for ĎMother Russiaí because that would truly suck and then many of us would be forced to live outside the law.

Now letís all make up and give each other a big hug in the name of Valentineís Day!
74.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
All good points. Whether moving is feasible or not depends on a lot of things, not least nitty-gritty economics, which often trump everything else.

And though this is not a NATIONAL issue and may bore and amaze people in the vast majority of states because they do not have to deal with such bizarre regulation, I enjoy debating alien life forms outside my species, which is why Luv2 and I get along sometimes.


As a side note, how about the civil disobedience that is apparently going on in NY and CT over gun control laws, including AR registration...:pop:
75.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
Who died and put Wild Bob in charge? :wink

But I will warn you, just because your area or state is pristine and a red state, could all change in rapid time. It has happened before and will happen again. The farmers in VA in 1950 could've never predicted what would become of the family farm in No. VA.

The winds of change are always blowing over the landscape.
76.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
Not trying to step on anyone's toes here...

All I'm saying is that regarding most issues/regulations, all anyone really has is the choice about how they deal with it. Sure we can get on a crusade to change this or that, or work to instate something we believe in, but until that pivotal moment of something changing or coming into being, all you have is the choice of how you respond to it.

Ok, I'll shut up now.
77.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
No body, and I'm only incharge of my sorry ass...and you see where that got me...three and half hours from the nearest Walmart! :-)
78.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16690]As a side note, how about the civil disobedience that is apparently going on in NY and CT over gun control laws, including AR registration...:pop:[/QUOTE]

All those people should bow to the will of the legislature and move to free states. Except Texas, because they'll bring their bean-containing chili recipes with them, and we won't tolerate that.

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16688]I prefer to deal with matters such as this by choosing where I live. That takes care of the issue. (I left the state I grew up in the northeast many years ago, never looked back. Now I dread having to go visit my family that still lives there because all they do is Fitch about how much the area has changed, complain about all the people and all the new rules, blah, blah, blah...) ‘So get over it and go live some where the majority of the people embrace the life style and beliefs that are similar to your own' is what I've told family members...but they'd rather cry than take ownership of their own destiny.[/QUOTE]

I hear what you're saying, but the problem with the whole "if you don't like it then move somewhere else" argument is that what we're talking about here is not simply a matter of community standards, an issue of preserving public safety or some other compelling state interest, but the infringement of individual liberties via the use of the state as a tool to impose select religious beliefs (primarily, at least) on that community as a whole. And telling someone that they need to uproot themselves and their family, move to another state, leave their friends and possibly extended family behind, quit their job and try to find another in their new location, etc just so they can enjoy the freedom that is their birthright as Americans is antithetical to the principles of freedom that we allegedly revere so highly.

Or maybe Rosa Parks should have just packed her bags and sat in the back of a bus that took her someplace other than Alabama.

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16693]All I'm saying is that regarding most issues/regulations, all anyone really has is the choice about how they deal with it. Sure we can get on a crusade to change this or that, or work to instate something we believe in, but until that pivotal moment of something changing or coming into being, all you have is the choice of how you respond to it.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. And I choose to respond by resisting efforts to curtail individual liberty.
79.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16695]

I hear what you're saying, but the problem with the whole "if you don't like it then move somewhere else" argument is that what we're talking about here is not simply a matter of community standards, an issue of preserving public safety or some other compelling state interest, but the infringement of individual liberties via the use of the state as a tool to impose select religious beliefs (primarily, at least) on that community as a whole. And telling someone that they need to uproot themselves and their family, move to another state, leave their friends and possibly extended family behind, quit their job and try to find another in their new location, etc just so they can enjoy the freedom that is their birthright as Americans is antithetical to the principles of freedom that we allegedly revere so highly.

Or maybe Rosa Parks should have just packed her bags and sat in the back of a bus that took her someplace other than Alabama.


[/QUOTE]

Exactly, and well said.
80.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
They are changing, I agree with you. The world is changing and so are things that are very near and dear to each and every one of us. And before it's all over, my warped choices may end me up living off the grid. But again, that is a choice, and one I'm thankful that I can make.

So, I lied. Now, I'll shut up.

:co: Please go ahead and take pop shots, I can take it... it's all good and it’ still Friday. Peace brothers - Even my atheist cat loving brothers!! LOL :ek:
81.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
I agree with what you are getting at DP, but I also agree to disagree.

"just so they can enjoy the freedom that is their birthright as Americans is antithetical to the principles of freedom that we allegedly revere so highly."

We're speaking of the ideals of a society (albeit our beloved society) ..I hate to say this, but when you really get down to it; what are we really guaranteed in the end...nothing. I'd venture to comment that the Roman Empire thought they'd be around forever too.

It's all relative in my opinion.

NOW, y'all stop being so dam stimulating and stop pulling me back into a conversation that I keep trying to get out of! LOL (like the way I'm trying to blame you for my choice and actions....:wink) and you let this happen...I hope you're happy! :bang:

OK, now I'm really done. I'll shut up now.
82.) Jon - 02/14/2014
Swampy is an athiest? Who knew?
83.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
LOL, Jon.

[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16697]...
:co: Please go ahead and take pop shots, I can take it... it's all good and it’ still Friday. Peace brothers - Even my atheist cat loving brothers!! LOL :ek:[/QUOTE]

Just for the record, and so my posts are not read in an inaccurate light, I don't happen to be an atheist. Not that there's anything wrong with that...:p

I wouldn't bother to mention it, except that if people get that notion in their heads, they tend to dismiss the points I and my compadres are making, which would be a seriously wrong move.
84.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16699]We're speaking of the ideals of a society (albeit our beloved society)[/QUOTE]

Yes, and chief among those ideals are the preservation of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" against the tyranny of the state, which in a constitutional, democratic republic is an extension of the will of the majority. There's a reason that the federal constitution and those of the 50 states all contain provisions explicitly spelling out protections for individual liberties, and it isn't the belief that the will of the majority should reign supreme over all else.
85.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16696]Exactly, and well said.[/QUOTE]

But there is one factor in my choices that don't equate on this argument...as mentioned in my earlier post - the driving reason for [U]me[/U] is 'over population and seeking quality outdoor experiences.' I never claimed to be on a quest to right the wrongs of society or preserve the principles of freedom.

I'm just a simple man in pursuit of happiness (being able to chase 10 species of big game animals without leaving the state I live in is beside the point here, but it factors into my choices). If it just so happens that I can also hunt on Sunday, after I worship, then great, that's awesome. But I still stand by the ideology that the only thing that I can hang my hat on; is that I have a choice. Is it not that very basic idea that lead to the discovery of America?

Distilled down...I'm just saying you have a choice (where is irrelevant) The basic point being choice and [U]THAT[/U] is the only guarantee any of us will ever have in [I]any[/I] matter. Just as Rosa Parks had a choice as to where she decided to sit on that faithful day. She [I]made her choice[/I].
86.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16704]But I still stand by the ideology that the only thing that I can hang my hat on; is that I have a choice. Is it not that very basic idea that lead to the discovery of America?[/QUOTE]

Actually, the principle that led to the discovery of America was profit incentive and/or the quest for acquisition of land (either by the Christopher Columbus and his Spanish financers, or the Vikings...depending on who you choose to credit with "discovering" the Americas...which were already heavily populated at the time anyway). :wink
87.) Jon - 02/14/2014
How actually did we populate a specific land if life started as Adam and Eve? I mean, did just all the sudden POOF, there are these 2 people ready to breed standing there looking at eachother asking "where's the chicken McNuggets"?
88.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Have you SEEN Eve??? Va-va-va-voom!


Where 60 billion screamin' Chinamen came from, though, I don't know.


:wink
89.) Jon - 02/14/2014
No, never seen Eve. I guess I'm too young. I can understand a bunch of guys getting in a boat and floating across the pond looking for somewhere better to live BUT where did it all start? I'm just not buying the Adam and Eve thing
90.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
"Actually, the principle that led to the discovery of America was profit incentive and/or the quest for acquisition of land (either by the Christopher Columbus and his Spanish financers, or the Vikings...depending on who you choose to credit with "discovering" the Americas...which were already heavily populated at the time anyway)."

We can argue particular historical details, and we can choose whether or not to acknowledge someone else’s comments. We can agree or disagree with any of this. It’s all good.

We can crusade for the principles we choose to, and we can live where we choose.

Viva la Sunday hunting argument! Let someone else take a stab at the beast with their steely knife.
91.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16709]No, never seen Eve. I guess I'm too young. I can understand a bunch of guys getting in a boat and floating across the pond looking for somewhere better to live BUT where did it all start? I'm just not buying the Adam and Eve thing[/QUOTE]

Really? That's a problem for you? I find it easier to believe that human life came from other human life, than the idea that it transformed from other forms of life. But that's me.

But even if you believed in Evolution as the source for origins, you have to come to grips with a life form emerging as a human, waiting for another human to emerge, so they can procreate. Or, you would have to have several emerging simultaneouly. Either way, you're forced to put faith in something you can't physically prove.

If you are even halfway curious about the story of Adam and Eve, read Genesis in the bible. Pick a modern version not King James, so it becomes a much easier read.

It ain't that complicated and if you don't believe, hey that's your choice.
92.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16710]
We can argue particular historical details, and we can choose whether or not to acknowledge someone elseís comments. We can agree or disagree with any of this. Itís all good.

We can crusade for the principles we choose to, and we can live where we choose.

[/QUOTE]


"...And the woooorlllld will live as one...."


Peace, love and beads, man...

:wink


:wave:
93.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
Way to go Chris, now you've got me talking origins. Which means here comes DParker to copy and paste my butt into oblivion.

I totally blame you for this impending train wreck.
94.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
LOL...

:grin:
95.) Jon - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;16711]Really? That's a problem for you? I find it easier to believe that human life came from other human life, than the idea that it transformed from other forms of life. But that's me.

But even if you believed in Evolution as the source for origins, you have to come to grips with a human emerging as a human, waiting for another human to emerge, so they can procreate. Or, you would have to have several emerging simultaneouly. Either way, you're forced to put faith in something you can't physically prove.

If you are even halfway curious about the story of Adam and Eve, read Genesis in the bible. Pick a modern version not King James, so it becomes a much easier read.

It ain't that complicated and if you don't believe, hey that's your choice.[/QUOTE]

That's an awesome answer and you spelled simultaneously wrong.
so, evolution is more unbelievable than some magic potion that made 2 humans just go "POP" and ended up looking at eachother and saying "lets put the round peg in the hole and procreate"?
Just stirring the pot, not admitting to being on either side of that fence
96.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16709]No, never seen Eve. I guess I'm too young.[/QUOTE]

Paging Billy B. Billy B. to the white courtesy phone, please...
97.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16716]That's an awesome answer and you spelled simultaneously wrong.
[/QUOTE]



:laugh::laugh::laugh:

:applause:
98.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16713]"...And the woooorlllld will live as one...."


Peace, love and beads, man...

:wink


:wave:[/QUOTE]

Hey man, it's Valentines Day...ain't no body gonna pish me off!

So just keep tryin'

I gotta whole afternoon and evening without the kids and with the Mrs....:tu:
99.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;16714]Way to go Chris, now you've got me talking origins. Which means here comes DParker to copy and paste my butt into oblivion.[/QUOTE]

You've made that accusation (vague though it may be) a couple of times now. Care to elaborate?
100.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16713]"...And the woooorlllld will live as one...."


Peace, love and beads, man...

:wink


:wave:[/QUOTE]

I suddenly have the urge to buy the world a Coke.
101.) Wild Bob - 02/14/2014
Thanks, but I only drink whiskey or beer.
102.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16722]Thanks, but I only drink whiskey or beer.[/QUOTE]



"Thou shalt not kill anything less than a fifth."

---WC Fields
103.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16720]You've made that accusation (vague though it may be) a couple of times now. Care to elaborate?[/QUOTE]

Not meant as accusation. Trust me on this, if you're annoyed even in the slightest, its 100% Swamp Fox's fault.

Every single issue we've ever had on any of Alex's project sites has had some way of relating back to Swamp Fox. I have them all memorized and categorized.
104.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
I'd defend myself, but I'm theres' A cAT on mY KrBoarf righ moew.././../
105.) Jon - 02/14/2014
Swampy, try that spilled milk on your lap trick again......
106.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
:p...
107.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16725]I'd defend myself, but I'm theres' A cAT on mY KrBoarf righ moew.././../[/QUOTE]

Maybe he'll clean out your PM box for you.
108.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Hang on, let me ask...
109.) luv2bowhunt - 02/14/2014
So.............do any of you think we should be able to hunt on Sundays?:re:
110.) DParker - 02/14/2014
Good kitty.
111.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Umm...

I could see in his face, I know it was no...
112.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16732]Umm...

I could see in his face, I know it was no...[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that his ol' lady is kinda' funny? 'Cuz, everybody's funny. Now you're funny too.
113.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Wild Bob;16722]Thanks, but I only drink whiskey or beer.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16723]"Thou shalt not kill anything less than a fifth."

---WC Fields[/QUOTE]

Why do you guys hate world peace? Or maybe I'm the only one who (sort of) remembers 1971....

[video=youtube_share;m1NeogMh1JI]http://youtu.be/m1NeogMh1JI[/video]
114.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16733]Are you saying that his ol' lady is kinda' funny? 'Cuz, everybody's funny. Now you're funny too.[/QUOTE]

I saw him today, he was leanin' up against a lamppost...

I don't believe he be tryin' to find no job...
115.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16735]I saw him today, he was leanin' up against a lamppost...

I don't believe he be tryin' to find no job...[/QUOTE]

That don't confront me, 'long as I get my money next Friday.
116.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
And then you'll be all lovey-dovey?
117.) DParker - 02/14/2014
You know when your mouth's gettin' dry, you're pretty high.
118.) DParker - 02/14/2014
Aw, hell...let's just get to it...

[video=youtube_share;ISmgOrhELXs]http://youtu.be/ISmgOrhELXs[/video]
119.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
BTW, I tried to find info on the SCI lawsuit, but every link comes up snake-eyes. I'm not having trouble with other searches, just that one..."Safari Club Virginia lawsuit" etc.
120.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16740]BTW, I tried to find info on the SCI lawsuit, but every link comes up snake-eyes. I'm not having trouble with other searches, just that one..."Safari Club Virginia lawsuit" etc.[/QUOTE]

I had the same result using Google, which I've found fails to return results on some searches for no apparent reason. So I just turn to Yahoo, which then comes through for me.

[url]http://www.wideopenspaces.com/sunday-hunting-ban-virginia-challenged-safari-club-international/[/url]
[url]http://nrvoutdoors.com/SAFARI%20CLUB%20SUNDAY%20HUNTING%20SUIT.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/article_6d040452-7b0f-11e3-9e7b-001a4bcf6878.html[/url]
[url]http://www.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/article_5d4f358e-788c-11e3-8a8e-001a4bcf6878.html[/url]

Etc, etc.
121.) Bob Peck - 02/14/2014
Since I'm not sure if anyone in this thread lives in Virginia I'd like to offer my simplistic resident .02 cents and leave faith-based arguments aside.

The Sunday hunting ban is nothing more than a smoke screen for wealthy landowner vs. working man & woman. He or she who owns the land controls the land. Just about everyone living here has known that for decades. All the other issues (faith-based, peace & quiet, sharing the woods, etc. etc) are just sideline fodder.

[U][B]WORKING MAN & WOMAN[/B][/U]
The working man or woman in Virginia has formerly either had to take time off from work or spend part of *or* all of Saturday hunting whether or not they were hunting private or public land. If there are family commitments that one cannot wiggle out of there is no hunting until the next Saturday rolls around. Everyone else who is not a working man or woman can obviously hunt during the week. 6 opportunities vs 1 for the working man/woman.

66% of the private land ownership in Virginia is deeded to "residents" of Northern Virginia which most of us consider to be a completely different foreign country. With land values hovering between $10k-30k per acre for good land (hunting or farming) it's not hard to understand who has the power and no, it's not the farmer.

[U][B]WEALTHY LANDOWNER[/B][/U]
If they're pro-hunting they already make a ton of money off hunt clubs by leasing their land. They'll make even more money when the Sunday hunting restriction is lifted.

If they're anti-hunters they are quite pleased to have the Sunday hunting restriction forever and even with passage of this legislation it changes nothing.

If they aren't either pro or anti they are all about privacy and exclusivity. These guys want to utilize their land whenever they see fit and don't want *anyone* intruding. Sunday hunting for this group also changes nothing because they generally want their land to themselves even if they're hundreds of miles away in their 2nd or 3rd home. They pay people to patrol their property.

If the landowner is not a Northern Virginia resident, wealthy or not and just a local guy, approval of Sunday hunting changes nothing because by and large they have ignored the restriction through legal means (kill permits, depredation licenses, etc). Put bluntly, any private landowner has been able to hunt their land legally or illegally for decades.

[B][U]CONCLUSION:[/U][/B]
Approval of Sunday hunting is a small victory for the working man/woman, doesn't drastically affect the average land owner (wealthy or not) and excludes the 1.5 million acres of National Forest 1/4 mile out my back door.
122.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16741]I had the same result using Google, which I've found fails to return results on some searches for no apparent reason. So I just turn to Yahoo, which then comes through for me.

[url]http://www.wideopenspaces.com/sunday-hunting-ban-virginia-challenged-safari-club-international/[/url]
[url]http://nrvoutdoors.com/SAFARI%20CLUB%20SUNDAY%20HUNTING%20SUIT.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/article_6d040452-7b0f-11e3-9e7b-001a4bcf6878.html[/url]
[url]http://www.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/article_5d4f358e-788c-11e3-8a8e-001a4bcf6878.html[/url]

Etc, etc.[/QUOTE]


That's weird. Yahoo is what I was using. I'll try linking through your post.
123.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16743]... I'll try linking through your post.[/QUOTE]

Which [B]works![/B]
(at least on the first link)...

Back in a bit.
124.) Floyd - 02/14/2014
Sarcasm. My apologizes if you didn't pick up on it. Hmmm

Understood Luv2. The one and only true God was not intended. I have no control of when and where swampy wants to flatter himself. Sort of like his cats don't senses their master Swampy's omnipotence.

GOD SWAMPY or G.O.D. or Q or ZORG or just about anyone who employs parlor tricks for their own purposes or what have you. Oh, how about messiah obama? Oop, already taken. Messiah Swampbama?

Again more humorous sarcasm. Or is it? It is. Maybe. I didn't say what I said when I didn't say it.
125.) DParker - 02/14/2014
A large part of my confusion on the issue (which is due to my not researching it, because I'm too lazy...and am hoping that a VA local will fill me in on it) is the talk about some landowners being motivated by wanting to keep hunters off their land on Sundays. Am I to understand that VA law permits hunting on others' private land without the landowners permission?
126.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
No, you need written permission to hunt on another's posted land anywhere in Virginia, as far as I know. Verbal permission if unposted has always been my understanding. It didn't used to be that way years ago, but it has been a statewide---okay, commonwealth--law for quite a while.

If you don't want your land hunted on Sunday, you don't have to give permission. Post it against hunting on Sundays. Make your lease-holders agree not to hunt on Sunday.. .Etc.
127.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16747]No, you need written permission to hunt on another's land anywhere in Virginia, as far as I know. It didn't used to be that way years ago, but it has been a statewide---okay, commonwealth--law for quite a while.

If you don't want your land hunted on Sunday, you don't have to give permission. Post it against hunting on Sundays. Make your lease-holders agree not to hunt on Sunday.. .Etc.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. So maybe I misunderstood something, and some were talking about the situation in their own (not VA) states.
128.) Ventilator - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Floyd;16603]Sunday hunting? Why draw any line? 24/7/365. 24/7/366 on a leap year.

Dare we put "if"s in there?[/QUOTE]

we have this for coyotes and feral pigs already.
129.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
As far as I know, all the Sunday hunting proposals in other states (at least the ones that saw the light of day and therefore came to my attention) included provisions for landowners to simply refuse permission to hunt Sundays on their land. Most notably, the last proposal I know of in Pa. However, the fact that the landowner maintains control of his land did not seem to faze the opponents up there. There is more than a little bit of that thick-headedness in the Virginia situation, too, if you ask me.
130.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16750]As far as I know, all the Sunday hunting proposals in other states (at least the ones that saw the light of day and therefore came to my attention) included provisions for landowners to simply refuse permission to hunt Sundays on their land. Most notably, the last proposal I know of in Pa. However, the fact that the landowner maintains control of his land did not seem to faze the opponents up there. There is more than a little bit of that thick-headedness in the Virginia situation, too, if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

Why would such provisions even be required? Lifting a general ban on Sunday hunting does not imply that landowners suddenly, magically lose the same property rights they already have on every other day. Or are they intended to address the situation in which a landowner has already given general permission with no specific day restrictions? (In which case the provisions would still be pointless, as a landowner can already simply rescind/modify the permission given in anyway he/she wishes). Or perhaps they only apply to leases, which would require some sort of post-facto modification that the landowner cannot just unilaterally make?
131.) Swamp Fox - 02/14/2014
Exactly. All this "control of the land" nonsense is just that, but it doesn't keep the opposition landowners and the opposition landowner groups (Farm Bureau, co-ops, etc.) from setting up that little distraction.


As far as retroactive lease arrangements go, I doubt that is a major factor. There'd be nothing preventing a landowner who says, "The law has changed, we need to modify the lease" from bringing that forward. Leasees would be foolish to raise a stink. The vast majority of leases are year-to-year, anyway.
132.) Bob Peck - 02/14/2014
He who owns the land controls the land. Nothing has changed.

With or without Sunday hunting in Virginia the landowner is NOT obligated under any circumstances (and even if he/she is hunter friendly) to allow Sunday hunting on their property. The Commonwealth of Virginia is not and has not told Virginia landowners what to do.

I'll use myself as an example. I have 70 acres of a honey hole in Staunton, VA. The landowner, a retired Marine Sgt Major, allows me to hunt and has provided written permission. He has agreed to update his written permission to include Sundays when the law passes but he's not obligated by law to grant that permission. He could have just as easily said no and that would be that.

I have another 600 acres I hunt in Louisa County where I also have written permission but the landowner doesn't want any hunting on Sunday as he and his family occasionally ride horses and ATV's in the meadows. I can still hunt Mon-Sat but no Sundays with or without legislation passing.

As I said, Sunday hunting on private property has been legal in the form or nuisance and depredation permits issued by the VDGIF.

There is no requirement to post your land in Virginia. Like many other states it's the hunters' obligation to know where the heck he/she is. If you do post, the fine levied to the trespasser is higher than if you don't.
[url]http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/privateproperty.asp[/url]

The official position of the VDGIF on Sunday hunting is here:
[url]http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/sunday-hunting/board-official-position-sunday-hunting.pdf[/url]
133.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;16757]I have 70 acres of a honey hole in Staunton, VA.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Bob Peck;16757]I have another 600 acres I hunt in Louisa County[/QUOTE]

What's that old saying? GPS coordinates, or it didn't happen....or, something like that. :wink
134.) DParker - 02/14/2014
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;16757]He who owns the land controls the land. Nothing has changed.

With or without Sunday hunting in Virginia the landowner is NOT obligated under any circumstances (and even if he/she is hunter friendly) to allow Sunday hunting on their property. The Commonwealth of Virginia is not and has not told Virginia landowners what to do.[/QUOTE]

OK, that's what I thought I was hearing (virtually). So then it sounds like VA landowners in fact have ZERO reason to oppose this particular measure based on any control and/or enjoyment of their land issues. In other words, I'm not seeing how this then is actually a matter of "wealthy landowner vs. working man & woman". And if it's not, then I'm missing why the other things are merely "smoke screens". Or are VA landowners mostly so stupid and/or wildly irrational that they'll fight something that there's absolutely no reason to fight?
135.) Swamp Fox - 02/15/2014
I thought it might be enlightening to see things from the other side. One of the groups that has been most vehemently against Sunday hunting in Virginia is one of the "dog groups," called the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance. This is from their Sept. 2013 newsletter. I have taken the liberty of highlighting their inner thoughts and secret code in brackets. If you would like to read the fully encrypted version without my translation, you can go here:

[url]http://vahda.org/PDFs/NewsletterSept14_2013.pdf[/url].


[B]Who are the folks advocating Sunday Hunting? [/B]To be sure there is a small contingent of water fowlers who want Sunday Hunting, perhaps some other small groups, and the big outdoor gear stores. [COLOR="#FF0000"][Capitalist pigs][/COLOR] But for the most part they are urban dwellers who want to come to rural areas, do their hunting on small tracts, and speed back to their homes, [COLOR="#FF0000"][reckless Mickey-Mouse city slickers][/COLOR] leaving rural Virginia hunters to deal with irate neighbors and adjoining landowners [COLOR="#FF0000"][Did we mention they are also slob hunters?]. [/COLOR]Most of the Sunday Hunting leaders are the same folks who led the charge to do away with dog based deer hunting via the 2007 “Hound Study”. [COLOR="#FF0000"][Also, FYI, the Jews were behind 9-11, and Fish and Game is out to get us and ruin America] [/COLOR]These folks are aware that Sunday Hunting is a good way to materially weaken dog based hunting because dog based hunters can’t hunt on Sunday, [COLOR="#FF0000"][Help, help, I'm melting! Hunting the same number of days as we always have makes us weaker][/COLOR]our neighbors and those who lease land to us are against it and would prohibit it [COLOR="#FF0000"][Again, that dratted loss of zero hunting days!] [/COLOR]. Indeed the 2012 bill had a prohibition against Sunday Hunting with dogs added at the last minute, showing that proponents were really greedy to get more access to the wildlife resource while we got less [COLOR="#FF0000"][We all learned in Virginia schools that no decrease equals less] [/COLOR]. It would surely strengthen the anti-hunting segment of the general population, and give them something to rally around [COLOR="#FF0000"][We have no evidence for this or even any hint of evidence, which is why we say "surely." It's a well known fact that anti-hunters are only on a low boil with us hunting six days a week, but seven would make their heads explode.]

[/COLOR] .
[B]Who’s against Sunday Hunting?[/B] The overwhelming majority of owners of large tracts of rural property oppose Sunday Hunting. [COLOR="#FF0000"][Also, pixies and unicorns will be joining our coalition shortly.] [/COLOR]Outdoor enthusiasts like the horse and saddle groups, wildlife watchers, and other outdoor recreationists are solidly against it, and so are large numbers of our citizens who want a day of rest. [COLOR="#FF0000"][Watch for our proposal in the legislature mandating that everyone get together in the woods on Sundays, and our alternative proposal that requires everyone to rest, which of course means no hunting but does not mean not going to Walmart or to the lake. We wish this last proposal didn't have to be mandatory, but it's hard to have a day of rest for the people who want to take a day of rest if everyone else isn't taking a day of rest or doesn't know what we really mean by rest.]
[/COLOR]
The majority of hunters are against Sunday Hunting, recognizing that civility is an inherent part of the character of rural Virginians [COLOR="#FF0000"][and you can't be civil if other people are hunting].[/COLOR] Further recognizing that many citizens do not feel comfortable sharing the open spaces while hunters pursue their sport, their opposition is becoming more vocal[COLOR="#FF0000"].[which will be a problem for us in the future because a lot of these uncomfortable people want to go out in the woods on Saturday, too, and then where will we be (?), but we're willing to ignore that right now while we're obsessing about Sunday]
[/COLOR]
The beginning of fall is the time when many local events occur. These events attract local government members like members of Boards Supervisors plus state legislators, so we must seize every opportunity to thwart what are really campaigns to outlaw hunting with dogs[COLOR="#FF0000"] [If you can't see this, please return your decoder ring and special X-ray glasses to us for repair and receive a free tinfoil hat as our gift, recognizing your solidarity with the brotherhood of hunters][/COLOR] by letting our representatives know why Sunday Hunting is bad for rural Virginia. [COLOR="#FF0000"][I mean, gosh, look at the rest of rural America! It's a hell-hole. Oops, did I just say that out loud? We meant H-E-Double Toothpicks hole. Or did we?][/COLOR] And if you don’t see them, call them and express your opposition.
136.) Bob Peck - 02/15/2014
[QUOTE=DParker;16763]In other words, I'm not seeing how this then is actually a matter of "wealthy landowner vs. working man & woman". [/QUOTE]

For decades the wealthy landowners who own 66% of the rural property in VA and whom also happen to be buds with their wealthy legislative buddies and neighbors in Northern VA took a position opposing Sunday hunting. We can postulate the many reasons why (aka smokescreens like blue laws, conservation arguments, day of rest, etc.) but at the end of the day they opposed it. The working man/woman had no say. There have been at least 5-6 attempts to repeal the Sunday hunting in the last 7 years I've lived here. Those appeals were all dead on arrival.

Why did it marginally (i.e. private land only) succeed this time? My opinion is this recent baby step is the hard-to-argue positive financial impact the revenue Sunday hunting generates. Virginians prefer the baby steps. It's been this way with slowly restricting dog hunting, introducing antler restrictions and legalizing crossbows to name a few.

As for the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance? Uh. Er. Hmmm. I guess their own position statement and use of language says it better than I ever could. If it's legal hunting method I support whomever and wherever. Unfortunately these guys are their own worst enemy. They're swirling around the drain. They feel threatened by everyone and to be frank, for good reason. Their combative & holier-than-thou stance is exactly what's wrong with hunters. Our greatest threat isn't from well-financed anti-hunters. We'll destroy ourselves from within. That is our way.
137.) Floyd - 02/15/2014
Break one stick at a time. Harder to break a bundle.

Swampy the Destroyer. Has a nice ring to it.

"Capitalist pigs; reckless Mickey-Mouse city slickers; slob hunters; Jews were behind 9-11; Fish and Game is out to get us and ruin America; get their panties in a wad; deer dogger; I'd like to spank the representatives; willing to ignore; bogus "safety" argument; call BS on all the arguments against; quit letting ourselves be pushed around; much longer I can take it; done with the church thing; they tend to dismiss the points I and my compadres are making, which would be a seriously wrong move; let's see if this generates more activity than a naked woman in a pool does;"

I can't shake a visual of Swampy foaming and spiting mad at the mouth on the subject of Sunday hunting. Normally mild mannered, boy he does get riled up. One could see motivation of getting an AR. It's clear you are not happy, even mad, toward those against your cause, and you want "change". I don't blame you. Just don't shoot me with that light weight AR; please.

Swampy the Destroyer's Manifest Destiny to....to....to do what ever he wants. Regardless. (I was going to put, because he's a young impetuous divine entity who feels put out.) (But, that doesn't matter.))

Swampy is like a little Tzeitel going against tradition. Psst; remember, Tzeitel gets her way. Yes, sometimes it's a good thing.

Still, I just can't shake this feeling this is just one of many issues, on a micro level compared to what's happening at a macro level to our nation.

I liked the younger United States of America when it came together with its people, strong like a bundle of sticks, unbreakable when together. Back when it was a melting pot. When immigrants melted into Americans. Oh well, I'm sure the water in the new mixing pot is fine. It will be fine, as we change from the United States of America to Obamaland. COMRADES, I kind of like Central North America, though.

A little tongue and Cheek. It will never happen on Swampy's. He won't let it happen.

What's next? Swampy how about a report on the anti-hunters and reckless Mickey-Mouse city slickers efforts to ban Archery Hunting as a cruel and unusual method of killing our brothers and sisters the animals. I think we can all get behind that. Oops, change "we" and "all" to "most". Sorry. There is always one in the crowd.
138.) Floyd - 02/15/2014
Swampy is empowered.

change.org > Our mission is to empower people everywhere to create the change they want to see.
139.) Swamp Fox - 02/17/2014
This is good, useful and worth a few giggles. :-)

Give it a peek.






'
140.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
Wow, swampy pooh is very upset. I was wondering what you was doing. You are disturbed brother. I like it when your character exclaimed to the other about pushing an agenda.

Funny. Hard to take you serious.
141.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
Damn swampy.... your little vintrant vid....way too long.
142.) Jon - 02/17/2014
Cant believe anyone wasted several minutes of their day making that video.
143.) Swamp Fox - 02/17/2014
What makes you think I have the skills to create a video? :shocked:

It was done by the people who put up the Facebook page mentioned at the beginning and end of the clip.
144.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
Shazam, you mean you even created a FB page? wow

I mean, great video. Well thought out. Award winning.

But, picking on a woman like that though..... You don't like women do you swampy?
145.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
Sorry Swampy, that wasn't fair. I know you like women.

But, you have to admit that guy kinda favors you in the cartoon video and you was working her over quite a bit.
146.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
My apologies Swampy. It's just clear that someone was having a one sided argument with themselves. Just surprised you posted it.
147.) Floyd - 02/17/2014
I did go to the FB page. Interesting title or FB page name: Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All

I was wondering how title or page name could be made better?

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Because the Deer Are Begging For It.

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Whether They Like It Or Not

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Except Those Who _____ (you can have a multiple choice here, like: Don't for what ever reason. Insert reason. Yeah, I know, whether rational or not.)

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All; Whoever All Is (It doesn't matter because we failed our consideration for others training) (and for the record the others would not show consideration to us)

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Because That's What the Majority of Us All Want.

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Because That's What the Minority of Us All Want.

Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting For All Because Dang It, It's the Right Thing To Do.

(I'm just having a little fun with it)
148.) Jon - 02/17/2014
I'm also wondering why the interest in Va hunting so much. Mr Bob Peck is the only one I know who actually lives and hunts in Va.
149.) Swamp Fox - 02/18/2014
I spend a reasonable amount of time in Virginia. Not hunting as much as I used to there, though, except during turkey season, and I've even cut back on that. It certainly is difficult to justify spending the time and sportsman dollars to enjoy the great things Virginia has to offer when Sunday must be a "down day." Sunday hunting would open up possibilities for me, and I look forward to them.

Also, the politics and arguments of the Sunday hunting issue in Virginia are very similar to those in NC, Being involved in the struggle here, I am very interested in what is happening in other states, particularly the Old Dominion, and especially from the communications perspective (editorials, blogging, lobbying, grassroots efforts, etc.).

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I believe this is the type of issue that deserves our attention and our support for fellow hunters. It is not merely a local or regional issue, and what happens with it does send a message to people everywhere, hunter and non-hunter alike.
150.) Floyd - 02/18/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;16826]Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I [COLOR="#0000FF"]believe [COLOR="#006400"](?)[/COLOR][/COLOR] [U]this is the type of issue that deserves our attention and our support for fellow hunters[/U]. It is not merely a local or regional issue, and what happens with it does [U]send a message to people everywhere, hunter and non-hunter alike[/U].[/QUOTE]


Exactly, I know we should support our fellow hunters....and non-hunters; to keep Sunday free from hunting for what ever reasons they may have to want to keep it free. C'mon Swampy, show some "consideration for (others)" those hunters and non-hunters. Quit being mean and heartless to your fellow hunting buddies.
151.) DParker - 02/18/2014
[QUOTE=Jon;16821]I'm also wondering why the interest in Va hunting so much. Mr Bob Peck is the only one I know who actually lives and hunts in Va.[/QUOTE]

Possibly for the same reasons that I show interest in Second Amendment cases that occur in states that are not Texas...

1) Trends in changes to the law tend to have at least some impact on legal thinking across jurisdictions.

2) I care about people's rights regardless of which state they call home.
152.) Floyd - 02/18/2014
C'mon, it's fun to watch the red states turn blue, people from red to blue, ... you know, change. I mean, it's fun to watch change happen. "All good things must come to an end"

"It's time to leave the party, honey. All good things must end. We've had a lovely visit, but all good things must come to an end."



One could almost hear it.....

Swampy: Yeahbutt Mom, the boys in Texas get to hunt on Sunday. (arms crossed and pouty faced)

Swampy's Mom: Yeahbutts live in the woods. If those Texas boys jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?
153.) Floyd - 02/18/2014
"Manage your time better and make better choices."

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh lord, that was funny.